Rental policy

I received my private last September, and have rented a Cessna 172 from the
same place I completed my training at ever since. Recently, I've been
looking for a new place to rent because the 172's at my current FBO are old
and always down because something broke yet again.

I went to a different FBO yesterday to ask about getting checked out in a
plane there. Initially they looked like a great place to rent from... at
least until I took a look at their rental policies and procedures. I really
didn't like one of them, but am wondering if it is "just me" or if it is a
normal policy with most FBO's.

It says "If the PIC determines that the plane needs repair before being
flown, and the PIC has flown the plane away from its home location, the PIC
must remain with the plane for three (3) days while the plane is being
repaired. The PIC is responsible for all costs of his own lodging, food,
travel expenses, etc. during this three day period. If the PIC elects to
leave the plane during this three day repair period, you are responsible for
the smaller of $5 per mile or $1000 for an FBO staff member to retreive the
plane."

So, basically, if I fly from Long Beach to Santa Barbara (class C airport),
and the plane has an electrical problem to due to fault of my own, and I
decide to squak the plane in Santa Barbara, I have to pay someone about
$1,800 to retrieve the plane if I can't stay with it for three days while it
gets repaired.

Is this an outrageous policy, or is it normal? I could see that I would be
responsible if I damaged the plane, or just decided to leave the plane
somewhere else, but its almost like they are encouraging pilots to fly
planes back home that shouldn't be flown just so they don't get stuck with a
bill.

Robert

Sounds like you could rent a car, drive home to Long Beach and return to
Santa Barbara when the plane was fixed and fly it back.

Mike
MU-2

"Robert" wrote in message
...
I received my private last September, and have rented a Cessna 172 from
the
same place I completed my training at ever since. Recently, I've been
looking for a new place to rent because the 172's at my current FBO are
old
and always down because something broke yet again.

I went to a different FBO yesterday to ask about getting checked out in a
plane there. Initially they looked like a great place to rent from... at
least until I took a look at their rental policies and procedures. I
really
didn't like one of them, but am wondering if it is "just me" or if it is a
normal policy with most FBO's.

It says "If the PIC determines that the plane needs repair before being
flown, and the PIC has flown the plane away from its home location, the
PIC
must remain with the plane for three (3) days while the plane is being
repaired. The PIC is responsible for all costs of his own lodging, food,
travel expenses, etc. during this three day period. If the PIC elects to
leave the plane during this three day repair period, you are responsible
for
the smaller of $5 per mile or $1000 for an FBO staff member to retreive
the
plane."

So, basically, if I fly from Long Beach to Santa Barbara (class C
airport),
and the plane has an electrical problem to due to fault of my own, and I
decide to squak the plane in Santa Barbara, I have to pay someone about
$1,800 to retrieve the plane if I can't stay with it for three days while
it
gets repaired.

Is this an outrageous policy, or is it normal? I could see that I would
be
responsible if I damaged the plane, or just decided to leave the plane
somewhere else, but its almost like they are encouraging pilots to fly
planes back home that shouldn't be flown just so they don't get stuck with
a
bill.

Robert

"Robert" writes:

I received my private last September, and have rented a Cessna 172 from the
same place I completed my training at ever since. Recently, I've been
looking for a new place to rent because the 172's at my current FBO are old
and always down because something broke yet again.

I went to a different FBO yesterday to ask about getting checked out in a
plane there. Initially they looked like a great place to rent from... at
least until I took a look at their rental policies and procedures. I really
didn't like one of them, but am wondering if it is "just me" or if it is a
normal policy with most FBO's.

It says "If the PIC determines that the plane needs repair before being
flown, and the PIC has flown the plane away from its home location, the PIC
must remain with the plane for three (3) days while the plane is being
repaired. The PIC is responsible for all costs of his own lodging, food,
travel expenses, etc. during this three day period. If the PIC elects to
leave the plane during this three day repair period, you are responsible for
the smaller of $5 per mile or $1000 for an FBO staff member to retreive the
plane."

So, basically, if I fly from Long Beach to Santa Barbara (class C airport),
and the plane has an electrical problem to due to fault of my own, and I
decide to squak the plane in Santa Barbara, I have to pay someone about
$1,800 to retrieve the plane if I can't stay with it for three days while it
gets repaired.

Is this an outrageous policy, or is it normal? I could see that I would be
responsible if I damaged the plane, or just decided to leave the plane
somewhere else, but its almost like they are encouraging pilots to fly
planes back home that shouldn't be flown just so they don't get stuck with a
bill.

I haven't rented in a long time, but most rental FBO's I dealt with
before becoming an owner discouraged (some really heavily) taking the
plane to places far away for extended periods, and instead preferred
that you just took day trippers.

I think the biggest encouragement for me to become an owner was the
crappy rentals (even a brand new, zero hours plane is a crappy rental
if the FBO policies are as draconian as the one mentioned above).

-jav

"Robert" wrote in message
...

It says "If the PIC determines that the plane needs repair before being
flown, and the PIC has flown the plane away from its home location, the
PIC
must remain with the plane for three (3) days while the plane is being
repaired. The PIC is responsible for all costs of his own lodging, food,
travel expenses, etc. during this three day period. If the PIC elects to
leave the plane during this three day repair period, you are responsible
for
the smaller of $5 per mile or $1000 for an FBO staff member to retreive
the
plane."

It looks to me as if they've been "burnt" in the past and
inserted that clause to cover themselves. Perhaps someone
took off with a dodgy alternator & then declared it 'bad'
in Catalina & billed them for the hotel... Anyway, that clause
doesn't look as if it's been written by a lawyer - the "must
remain" part seems too much like slavery & likely to be
too vague to be enforceable.

It shouldn't really affect you in any case. If you take off in
a plane you know needs to be repaired, you are violating
the FARs as well as the rental policy. Just fly legally and
it won't apply to you.

"Tony Cox" writes:

It shouldn't really affect you in any case. If you take off in
a plane you know needs to be repaired, you are violating
the FARs as well as the rental policy. Just fly legally and
it won't apply to you.

There are rentals that don't need to be repaired?

-jav

"Tony Cox" wrote in message
ink.net...
[...]
It shouldn't really affect you in any case. If you take off in
a plane you know needs to be repaired, you are violating
the FARs as well as the rental policy. Just fly legally and
it won't apply to you.

The part about remaining with the airplane or paying $5/mile (up to the
$1000 maximum...yikes!) certainly would.

If you take off in a plane you know needs to be repaired,
you are violating the FARs as well as the rental policy.

If anyone takes of in a plane that needs to be repaired this
armchair pilot and lurker says you are dumber than a
sack of hammers and a prime candidate for the darwin award.

"Robert" wrote in message
...
[...stay 3 days or pay $5/mile up to $1000 for ferrying...]

Is this an outrageous policy, or is it normal? I could see that I would
be
responsible if I damaged the plane, or just decided to leave the plane
somewhere else, but its almost like they are encouraging pilots to fly
planes back home that shouldn't be flown just so they don't get stuck with
a
bill.

I've never heard of such a policy. Of course, an FBO is free to write into
their contract whatever they think they can get renters to agree to and I've
been an owner too long for me to be able to comment on what's "typical" for
rental agreements.

I definitely wouldn't rent an airplane from an operation that thinks that
sort of language is reasonable though, and I personally agree with the use
of the word "outrageous" to describe the policy.

We just had a similar thread regarding responsibilities of pilots renting a
plane that suffers a mechanical problem while away from home. You might
look back at that thread for insight into the widely varying opinions of the
pilot's responsibility under that kind of situation.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...a5ed5ee&rnum=1

Personally, I feel that one of the few advantages to renting is that you're
not responsible for maintenance issues not of your own doing; language like
this in the contract attempts to take from the renter that one benefit,
making me wonder why anyone would rent at all if it were standard. I said
as much in the above thread.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Tony Cox" wrote in message
ink.net...
[...]
It shouldn't really affect you in any case. If you take off in
a plane you know needs to be repaired, you are violating
the FARs as well as the rental policy. Just fly legally and
it won't apply to you.

The part about remaining with the airplane or paying $5/mile (up to the
$1000 maximum...yikes!) certainly would.

Nah. A good lawyer could get you off easy! The way that
clause is written, you're supposed to remain with the plane
for 3 days at the remote location even if what needs to be
repaired is no worse than it was when you took off. And
what does "remain" mean anyway? Sleep in the back seat?

I wouldn't worry about it. It's just some pettifogger's way
of trying to protect themselves after some renter ripped them
off.

Take another look at this statement: "If the PIC determines that the plane
needs repair before being flown, and the PIC has flown the plane away from
its home location..."

What this is actually saying is: "If an airplane needs repair, and you know
that the airplane needs repair, and you fly away knowing that the airplane
needs repair, and the airplane must be repaired at a location other than
it's home base, we're going to charge you out the ass!"

Solution? Don't rent planes with squawks, unless they are extremely minor.



"Robert" wrote in message
...
I received my private last September, and have rented a Cessna 172 from
the
same place I completed my training at ever since. Recently, I've been
looking for a new place to rent because the 172's at my current FBO are
old
and always down because something broke yet again.

I went to a different FBO yesterday to ask about getting checked out in a
plane there. Initially they looked like a great place to rent from... at
least until I took a look at their rental policies and procedures. I
really
didn't like one of them, but am wondering if it is "just me" or if it is a
normal policy with most FBO's.

It says "If the PIC determines that the plane needs repair before being
flown, and the PIC has flown the plane away from its home location, the
PIC
must remain with the plane for three (3) days while the plane is being
repaired. The PIC is responsible for all costs of his own lodging, food,
travel expenses, etc. during this three day period. If the PIC elects to
leave the plane during this three day repair period, you are responsible
for
the smaller of $5 per mile or $1000 for an FBO staff member to retreive
the
plane."

So, basically, if I fly from Long Beach to Santa Barbara (class C
airport),
and the plane has an electrical problem to due to fault of my own, and I
decide to squak the plane in Santa Barbara, I have to pay someone about
$1,800 to retrieve the plane if I can't stay with it for three days while
it
gets repaired.

Is this an outrageous policy, or is it normal? I could see that I would
be
responsible if I damaged the plane, or just decided to leave the plane
somewhere else, but its almost like they are encouraging pilots to fly
planes back home that shouldn't be flown just so they don't get stuck with
a
bill.

Robert