Options After Items Flagged as Unairworthy (was TBO and Airworthiness)

Denny wrote:


Then you move your plane out of his shop and secure it...
Then you call the FSDO for your area and ask for a ferry permit for
this plane because of a dispute with the A&I... You read him/her the
list of discrepancies, such as the small dent in the exhaust that has
been there for a decade, etc. and ask for the ferry permit to move the
plane to another shop for a fresh inspection...
The odds are 99 & 44/100% that you will get the ferry permit...


denny



I got in a dispute at annual once and took this path. ('Annual' might
be an exaggeration since the plane was sitting untouched after I had
been promised repeatedly that getting to it in time wouldn't be a
problem.) Unless things have changed or my memory is playing tricks on
me, the form that the FSDO willingly faxed to me still had to be signed
by either an A&E or an IA. In retrospect, I also wonder what the
insurance company would have had to say if anything had gone wrong?

Tom

In retrospect, I also wonder what the
insurance company would have had to say if anything had gone wrong?

Tom

We are getting deep into 'what if's', but think it through... The Ins.
Co. says the plane must be kept legally airworthy to be covered for
inflight risk... Who defines what is/not airworthy - the FAA... The
form you have from the FAA says it IS legally airworthy for the
duration of that listed flight...

denny

Denny wrote:



We are getting deep into 'what if's', but think it through... The Ins.
Co. says the plane must be kept legally airworthy to be covered for
inflight risk...

As defined by your state. Many, if not most, states will force an
insurer to pay up if there's an accident and the plane is out of annual
if the cause of the accident had nothing to do with the fact the plane
was/was not in annual.

Denny wrote:
In retrospect, I also wonder what the
insurance company would have had to say if anything had gone wrong?

Tom

We are getting deep into 'what if's', but think it through... The Ins.
Co. says the plane must be kept legally airworthy to be covered for
inflight risk... Who defines what is/not airworthy - the FAA... The
form you have from the FAA says it IS legally airworthy for the
duration of that listed flight...

Maybe not. Every policy I've had stated that the airplane must comply with
its standard airworthiness certificate. If it's out of annual, it's out of
compliance. A special airworthiness certificate (represented by the Ferry
Permit) is not the same as the standard airworthiness certificate. At least
according to the aviation insurance policies I've had experience with.

I've made flights under ferry permits and in all cases, the insurance
companies had to approve the flight and fax a waiver.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

On Apr 16, 3:32 pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe wrote:
Denny wrote:
In retrospect, I also wonder what the
insurance company would have had to say if anything had gone wrong?

Tom

We are getting deep into 'what if's', but think it through... The Ins.
Co. says the plane must be kept legally airworthy to be covered for
inflight risk... Who defines what is/not airworthy - the FAA... The
form you have from the FAA says it IS legally airworthy for the
duration of that listed flight...

Maybe not. Every policy I've had stated that the airplane must comply with
its standard airworthiness certificate. If it's out of annual, it's out of
compliance. A special airworthiness certificate (represented by the Ferry
Permit) is not the same as the standard airworthiness certificate. At least
according to the aviation insurance policies I've had experience with.

I've made flights under ferry permits and in all cases, the insurance
companies had to approve the flight and fax a waiver.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)



All of you raise very valid issues and there is abit of debate of
exactly how many forms, permits, and signatures are required when
"ferrying" a plane that has airworthy issues flagged. So I go back to
my original post......

You can either A) "suck it up" and let the 1st shop do the work, OR B)
go thru the process that we both described with ferry permits, etc.
But if you choose B, in
addition to the hassles of permits, signatures, reviews, etc., you
have to ask yourself whether taking it someplace else will really make
enough of a difference to make all those time-consuming hassles
worthwhile? In the end, will you save $50 or 50%??

In our case, we figured we save $50 not 50% so it wasn't worth the
hassle.

--Jeff

On 16 Apr 2007 07:59:09 -0700, "Denny" wrote:

In retrospect, I also wonder what the
insurance company would have had to say if anything had gone wrong?

Tom

We are getting deep into 'what if's', but think it through... The Ins.
Co. says the plane must be kept legally airworthy to be covered for
inflight risk... Who defines what is/not airworthy - the FAA... The
form you have from the FAA says it IS legally airworthy for the
duration of that listed flight...

Yup! The form has to be signed off, after inspecting it, by an IA or
A&E stating the aircraft is airworthy for that flight. I've done a
number of ferry flights like that. Just ask your insurrance carrier
if in doubt. I've not had one say no, yet.

denny