ANPRM - removal of transponder exception for gliders

https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...nt-for-gliders

'Send comments on or before August 17, 2015.'

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 8:54:47 AM UTC-5, wrote:
https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...nt-for-gliders

Thanks for the alert. At least the FAA is soliciting input.

It also appears on a quick read that this implies requiring ADSB-out compliance for gliders with TABS...

What "TABS" TSO-C199 devices on the market currently? Google shows me recent announcements, but no price info. It appears these are "certificated" GPS data sources for a mode-S 1090es.

Expect another note for the "no electrical system" exemption for power aircraft?

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 6:54:47 AM UTC-7, wrote:
https://www.federalregister.gov/arti...nt-for-gliders

Can someone briefly explain TABS? From some cursory reading it appears to be a low cost, low featured alternative to ADS-B, using tested but commercial grade GPS receivers. Does it use a different transmitter, or it is connected through your Mode S and use the digital transmission features already in place?

Many who have fitted Mode-S transponders already have the equipment and electrical load to transmit position and velocity data to the collision avoidance system. If Flarm would just certify their GPS as TSO-C199 compliant, then many of us would already have the equipment required. This would seem to be the easy way to make the most people happy. If TABS requires yet another device, GPS receiver, and antenna, I will be reluctant to install it.

FAA TABS briefing April 2015

http://www.icao.int/APAC/Meetings/20...20briefing.pdf

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 9:21:27 AM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
FAA TABS briefing April 2015

http://www.icao.int/APAC/Meetings/20...20briefing.pdf

"Brief" is right - doesn't say much at all. First couple of pages of Google results aren't much more enlightening.

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 11:32:16 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:

Many who have fitted Mode-S transponders already have the equipment and electrical load to transmit position and velocity data to the collision avoidance system. If Flarm would just certify their GPS as TSO-C199 compliant, then many of us would already have the equipment required.

Is it reasonable to argue that a Trig TT21 (130 watt) should be acceptable for glider use due to my lower speed, rather than just the TT22 (250 watt)? Is there any chance that the FAA would grandfather in TT21s in any new regulations?

Does PowerFlarm alert to TABS equipped aircraft?

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 12:40:05 PM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 9:21:27 AM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
FAA TABS briefing April 2015

http://www.icao.int/APAC/Meetings/20...20briefing.pdf

"Brief" is right - doesn't say much at all.

Follow the link on the link.
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/1600df588a6f53ae86257d710070d105/$FILE/TSO-C199.pdf


On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 1:19:19 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:

Does PowerFlarm alert to TABS equipped aircraft?

From http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgTSO.nsf/0/1600df588a6f53ae86257d710070d105/$FILE/TSO-C199.pdf


"a. Functionality TABS equipment developed under this TSO are intended to make aircraft with an installed device visible to TAS, TCAS I, TCAS II and ADS-B IN equipped aircraft."

PowerFlarm has ADS-B In, so TABS equipped aircraft should(?) show up in PowerFlarm. And (possible wishful thinking) this would work outside the range of ADS-B ground station?

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 11:32:16 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:

Many who have fitted Mode-S transponders already have the equipment and electrical load to transmit position and velocity data to the collision avoidance system. If Flarm would just certify their GPS as TSO-C199 compliant, then many of us would already have the equipment required.

Nope, Jfitch. You would not. TABS will transmit your position for a TCAS enabled plane to see. Flarm does not do that. Only way to do that now is with a transponder. Maybe in a couple of years (the TSO for TABS was just released in October of 2014), there will be a complete, TABS system available. But, it will have to cost a whole bunch less than a transponder to draw any real interest in adoption.

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 12:19:19 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:

Is it reasonable to argue that a Trig TT21 (130 watt) should be acceptable for glider use due to my lower speed, rather than just the TT22 (250 watt)? Is there any chance that the FAA would grandfather in TT21s in any new regulations?


Son, your transponder (TT21) is already acceptable. No need to "grandfather" it.

Does PowerFlarm alert to TABS equipped aircraft?

No. PowerFlarm will not alert TABS equipped aircraft. PowerFlarm only "alerts" other Flarm devices as to your presence. TABS will be a "dumb" system, as it only talks. It does not listen. It will tell the heavies "Look out! Something is out here!" But it will not tell you "Look out! Something is trying to run over you!"

My read on this based on my current understandings.

Steve Leonard

On Tuesday, June 16, 2015 at 12:39:06 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:

PowerFlarm has ADS-B In, so TABS equipped aircraft should(?) show up in PowerFlarm. And (possible wishful thinking) this would work outside the range of ADS-B ground station?

Sorry. Mis-read your initial question. It is possible that PowerFlarm might be alerted to a TABS equipped airplane. However, with the TSO just released in October, I would not expect to see a TABS solution inside of two years from now. And the guys at Flarm would be the ones that can give the final answer.

Steve Leonard