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#11
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I used to have a friend that built metal aircraft. He had an interesting
way of explaining his preference. "When you build a composite aircraft", he said, "first you make the plug and then the mold and then the aircraft." "It's like building the same damned airplane three times." "When I'm through pounding a rivet", he said, "I'm through with the damn thing". "I don't have to wait for it to dry or cure". "I don't need any particular temperature to work either." "If I'm comfortable, the airplane is too." I fly a composite aircraft. Bill Daniels |
#13
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#14
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wrote in message . ..
On 2 May 2004 17:02:05 -0700, (Paul Lee) wrote: ................. You always know when a pusher flies by because of the characteristic whapping rasping sound the prop makes. It makes this sound because the airflow to the prop is masked by the shape of the fuselage and wings at various places. Around the bottom of the fuselage the prop sees relatively clean air, but when it passes the wing, it hits a mass of downwash from the wing. Then clean air, then turbulent air again.......... In addition, the diameter of the prop on tractor airplanes isn't generally larger because it has to be to generate thrust around the fuselage, it's larger because it can be. Props on pushers generally have to be smaller in order to not grind it off on the ground in case of inadvertant high AOA. Over rotating with an EZ risks a prop strike. ...... You raised some good points. The actual sound difference doesn't bother me as a pilot. In fact the "behind" sound in a pusher is more bearable. But the fact is that even turbulent air, while not ideal, can be pushed back with the prop - those molecules moving randomly at 1000kts can easily fill in the void - unless you are moving near 1000kts. In a sense you have "turbulent" (dead) air in front when taking off. Best possible laminar flow, from what I gather, is more crucial for wing lift than for prop thrust. So I still think there is some advantage to pusher props - although, as you pointed out, it may not be very significant. Just a further brainstorm curiosity. Not sure if I can express this clearly. The greatest net force you have is on takeoff. The prop grabs the molecules and throws them backward. The change in molecular momentum results in the thrust (F = dP/dt). When the air is moving fast backward (high air speed) there is much smaller change in momentum - granted there is more molecules pushed. Would the turbulent air (slow air) in front of a pusher prop help the thrust somewhat? A rocket engine, with molecules relatively at initial 0 speed, has more thrust than a jet. |
#15
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#16
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wrote in message . ..
On 3 May 2004 16:11:01 -0700, (Paul Lee) wrote: ............. The airplane with the lowest coeficient of drag ever recorded was a tractor design, albeit a small one. :-) Corky Scott Scott, Lowest CD very much depends on the design. There are "many" tractor designs and much fewer pusher ones to compare to. But really overal CD of a body has little to do with pusher/tractor prop effectivenes issue here. I think a good way to settle this is to put a model tractor body in a wind tunel and then reverse the same thing and test it as a pusher. Anybody's got a spare wind tunel and lots of time? |
#17
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#18
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#19
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On Wed, 5 May 2004, alexy wrote:
(Paul Lee) wrote: I think a good way to settle this is to put a model tractor body in a wind tunel and then reverse the same thing and test it as a pusher. Anybody's got a spare wind tunel and lots of time? Or, if one is looking to "prove" the opposite result, put a model pusher body in a wind tunnel and then reverse the same thing and test it as a tractor! g -- Actually, this question has been answered. The Cessna SkyMaster has both a pusher and a tractor engine. The single engine climb rate and speed are both higher for the rear engine alone, than for the front engine alone. The pusher wins! George Graham RX-7 Powered Graham-EZ, N4449E Homepage http://bfn.org/~ca266 |
#20
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"George A. Graham" wrote Actually, this question has been answered. The Cessna SkyMaster has both a pusher and a tractor engine. The single engine climb rate and speed are both higher for the rear engine alone, than for the front engine alone. The pusher wins! George Graham Actually, no. One would have to test without the prop on the non-operating engine and with the cooling inlets streamlined. With the dead engine prop still on, it is largely a test on which position has less drag than the other. -- Jim in NC --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.672 / Virus Database: 434 - Release Date: 4/28/2004 |
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