If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#21
|
|||
|
|||
TBO and airworthiness
In Canada, we have it well-defined he http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Re...ards/a625c.htm Scroll down to "6. Engines" and see the note in italics. Do the FARs have a similar requirement? I couldn't find it, but it's likely there somewhere. "Airworthiness" is a legal term meaning "safe and fit for flight." Doesn't mean "perfect." Dan |
#22
|
|||
|
|||
TBO and airworthiness
Jim Stewart wrote:
Dave Butler wrote: Yes, many IA's I've worked with refuse to sign after 200 over TBO. Its probably a liability issue. Sounds like a competency issue - on what basis did they 'fail" the aircraft? They don't have to fail anything. If it's not returned to service, the owner is at liberty to find another IA who is willing to return it to service. An IA is not obligated to explain why he chooses not to return an aircraft to service. He's supposed to make a log entry regarding the results of his inspection isn't he? Even if the FAR didn't specifically require such an entry, common business ethics and practices would demand it should the owner request it. Beg pardon? "Common business ethics and practices" and the FARs in the same sentence? As another poster explained, the IA is required by the FARs to provide a written explanation identifying each item that is unairworthy. A log book entry is the second written documentation entry. 14CFRPart 43.11 - content, form and disposition of records for inspection conducted under Parts 91 & 125.... (a)(5)..."...I certify this aircraft has been inspected...and a list of discrepancies ...has been provided for the aircraft owner..." (b)Listing of discrepancies and placards "if the person performing any inspection required by Part 91 or 125.. finds that the aircraft is unairworthy or does not meet applicable type certificate data, airworthiness directives or other approved data upon which its airworthiness depends, that person must give the owner or lessee a signed and data list of those discrepancies..." |
#23
|
|||
|
|||
TBO and airworthiness
On Apr 12, 1:37 pm, "
wrote: On Apr 12, 8:42 am, "Matt Barrow" wrote: "Dave Butler" wrote in message ... Yes, many IA's I've worked with refuse to sign after 200 over TBO. Its probably a liability issue. Sounds like a competency issue - on what basis did they 'fail" the aircraft? They don't have to fail anything. If it's not returned to service, the owner is at liberty to find another IA who is willing to return it to service. Note the "" around _fail_. An IA is not obligated to explain why he chooses not to return an aircraft to service. I seriously doubt they would stay mute on the subject. In fact, once the inspection has started, the IA is required by FAR to sign the aircraft off as un-airworthy and give the owner a list of things to fix to make it airworthy. Part 43. But ahead of time, you could quiz him informally about what he would do. If he has an idea about TBO that you don't like, you could learn that before you start. Bill Hale A&PIA- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - While not directly related to the engine/TBO question, I ran into this exact problem on the recent annual for my 79 Warrior. We used a new FBO this year (Landmark) and they took a "lets make it new" approach on the initial inspection and estimate. The list of issues ran 3 pages long even though many had been there for many years and signed off by 2 other smaller FBOs in previous annuals. The cost estimate was 3x what we were used to!! THe point being that after I recovered from heart failure over the estimate, we considered having Landmark close it up and take it somewhere else. But we learned that once a shop flags something as unairworthy, its too late to "change your mind", ignore the inspection, and start over someplace else. You can go elsewhere, but an A&P must now sign off that the plane is safe to fly and ferry to another shop, a FSDO has to sign off on a ferry permit, and then the new A&P must either the fix the flagged items or note in the logbook why he/she didn't agree with the initial diagnosis. This process requires permits, signatures, more permits, more signatures. (In the end, we decided it was too hard and we let Landmark suck our wallets dry.) --Jeff |
#24
|
|||
|
|||
TBO and airworthiness
"JB" wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 12, 1:37 pm, " wrote: On Apr 12, 8:42 am, "Matt Barrow" I seriously doubt they would stay mute on the subject. In fact, once the inspection has started, the IA is required by FAR to sign the aircraft off as un-airworthy and give the owner a list of things to fix to make it airworthy. Part 43. But ahead of time, you could quiz him informally about what he would do. If he has an idea about TBO that you don't like, you could learn that before you start. Bill Hale A&PIA- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - While not directly related to the engine/TBO question, I ran into this exact problem on the recent annual for my 79 Warrior. We used a new FBO this year (Landmark) and they took a "lets make it new" approach on the initial inspection and estimate. The list of issues ran 3 pages long even though many had been there for many years and signed off by 2 other smaller FBOs in previous annuals. The cost estimate was 3x what we were used to!! THe point being that after I recovered from heart failure over the estimate, we considered having Landmark close it up and take it somewhere else. But we learned that once a shop flags something as unairworthy, its too late to "change your mind", ignore the inspection, and start over someplace else. You can go elsewhere, but an A&P must now sign off that the plane is safe to fly and ferry to another shop, a FSDO has to sign off on a ferry permit, and then the new A&P must either the fix the flagged items or note in the logbook why he/she didn't agree with the initial diagnosis. This process requires permits, signatures, more permits, more signatures. (In the end, we decided it was too hard and we let Landmark suck our wallets dry.) http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/189710-1.html The Savvy Aviator #18: Avoid an Annual Calamity Pay particular attention to the part titeld, "Mismanagement Of The Annual" |
#25
|
|||
|
|||
TBO and airworthiness
On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 06:02:46 -0700, JB wrote:
But we learned that once a shop flags something as unairworthy, its too late to "change your mind", ignore the inspection, and start over someplace else. It is not true if the previous annual has not yet expired. - Andrew |
#26
|
|||
|
|||
TBO and airworthiness
On Thu, 12 Apr 2007 22:08:32 +0000, Blanche wrote:
As another poster explained, the IA is required by the FARs to provide a written explanation identifying each item that is unairworthy. A log book entry is the second written documentation entry. In fact, Mike Busch recommends (and I see the reasoning) that the discrepancy list *not* be placed in the log. There's no reason that this information should be "preserved" at that level. The list is required, but there's no requirement that it be logged. - Andrew |
#27
|
|||
|
|||
TBO and airworthiness
On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 06:06:53 -0700, Matt Barrow wrote:
There are lots of TBO-related old wives tales that are widely believed by owners and mechanic alike, and they can cost owners a great deal of money. What's amazing is that some owners are almost religious about this. That is, it matters not what articles you put before them counting their beliefs. They still believe. - Andrew |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
A question on Airworthiness Inspection | Dave S | Home Built | 1 | August 10th 04 05:07 AM |
Restricted Airworthiness | Brad Mallard | Aviation Marketplace | 1 | May 20th 04 05:18 PM |
Airworthiness Cert Still Valid? | Carl Orton | Owning | 12 | February 13th 04 10:21 PM |
Teaching airworthiness | Roger Long | Piloting | 28 | October 2nd 03 09:08 PM |
Airworthiness certification of an experimental | Ace Pilot | Home Built | 0 | July 16th 03 03:26 PM |