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#221
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Gasohol
I think you missed my point. I hope you missed my point. I hope
you don't think hysterical arguement actually help convince people and are the PROPER way to have discussions on issues. Alas, I was misread. Hysterical arguments don't convince anybody, but rational arguments are derided as "hysterical" by those who oppose them. I should have quoted the word. Jose -- You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#222
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Gasohol
If it does get hotter, it will prove that the hystericals
were right, and we should have done something. If it does not, it will prove that the hystericals were right and we did something good. No, that only works if we =did= do something good. Or at least something expensive (that is, something that business would not do on their own, like install scrubbers in their smokestacks, or pre-treat waste before dumping it in the river, or improve gas milage). And no, before some quick-ass jumps at the chance, I am not suggesting that "something expensive" is a good substitute for "something good". Jose -- You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#223
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Gasohol
"Bob Noel" wrote in message ... In article , Jose wrote: Do you think the CO2 emissions would have been cured had there been no hystericals? The hystericals were not necessary and could have been a detriment. Then why were the CO2 emissions cured? It certainly costs money, and companies don't spend money for nothing. I think you missed my point. I hope you missed my point. I hope you don't think hysterical arguement actually help convince people and are the PROPER way to have discussions on issues. Bob! He's a teacher, not a scholar. |
#224
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Gasohol
"Morgans" writes:
The pipeline people send many various grades of gas, all through the same pipeline. They may send 95 octane straight gas for 4 hours, then switch to 82 octane for 2 hours, and so on, with the right storage facilities along the way intercepting it, and putting it into separate tanks. I believe how they know how to switch over, is to first know how long the switch in types to get to them, then the senders put a dye package into the fuel to alert the storage and distribution people that it is time to switch some valves, and send the next fuel into a different tank. Pretty close. We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it. He "makes the cut" by observing the color change and the specific gravity. He punches the [explosion-proof, of course!] pushbutton on the valve panel when it's time. He may cut early. middle or late; it depends on the two products. The schedulers try to make adjacent 'tenders' friendly. Say $2 Fuel Oil followed by Jet-A. That would be an late cut; he waits until he's sure it's all Jet-A then he swings the valve. A few barrels of Jet-A aka Kerosene will not hurt 100,000 bbls of #2FO. If an unfriendly cut, say gas to Jet-A; he'll cut early to the slop tank, and then ~~5-10 min later to Jet-A. The slop tank is eventually emptied by being slowly injected into a Kero/FO incoming stream; the tank is later tested to be sure its flashpoint remains above 110F. Specialty fuels may not travel the pipeline, but be shipped some distances by tanker truck, or barge. Fuels such as.... AvGas. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
#225
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Gasohol
"David Lesher" wrote in message ... We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it. He "makes the cut" by observing the color change and the specific gravity. He punches the [explosion-proof, of course!] pushbutton on the valve panel when it's time. He may cut early. middle or late; it depends on the two products. The schedulers try to make adjacent 'tenders' friendly. Say $2 Fuel Oil followed by Jet-A. That would be an late cut; he waits until he's sure it's all Jet-A then he swings the valve. A few barrels of Jet-A aka Kerosene will not hurt 100,000 bbls of #2FO. If an unfriendly cut, say gas to Jet-A; he'll cut early to the slop tank, and then ~~5-10 min later to Jet-A. The slop tank is eventually emptied by being slowly injected into a Kero/FO incoming stream; the tank is later tested to be sure its flashpoint remains above 110F. Specialty fuels may not travel the pipeline, but be shipped some distances by tanker truck, or barge. Fuels such as.... AvGas. -- Thanks Dave! Can 87 octane be mixed with ~93 octane to arrive at 90 octane? Seems like a lot of black magic (no pun intended) in the oil business... |
#226
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Gasohol
"Blueskies" writes:
-- Thanks Dave! Can 87 octane be mixed with ~93 octane to arrive at 90 octane? Seems like a lot of black magic (no pun intended) in the oil business... {please trim your quotes...} We didn't {it was a Marketing function} but yes. Sunoco was the most visible; their pump took both base [86 octane, ISTM] and high test & you set the ratio before lifting the nozzle. Others did so in a less obvious manner. Most of the ''magic'' is marketing hype. It used to be "spot" gas [aka noname] was dubious; maybe old, etc.. Since fuel injected cars took over; IMHO 99.99% of gas is all the same, save the uniform on the attendent. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
#227
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Gasohol
On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:15:25 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote: "Morgans" writes: The pipeline people send many various grades of gas, all through the same pipeline. They may send 95 octane straight gas for 4 hours, then switch to 82 octane for 2 hours, and so on, with the right storage facilities along the way intercepting it, and putting it into separate tanks. I believe how they know how to switch over, is to first know how long the switch in types to get to them, then the senders put a dye package into the fuel to alert the storage and distribution people that it is time to switch some valves, and send the next fuel into a different tank. Pretty close. We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it. Over 20 years ago I had the chance to tour the pumping and fuel distribution control facility at a refinery. *Everything* was controlled from that room. They measured flow rates Vs time and claimed they could control the flow to the remote storage facilities hundreds of miles away within several gallons. the system was automated. The operator told it how many gallons of what to go where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor it. |
#228
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Gasohol
"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message
... We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it. Over 20 years ago I had the chance to tour the pumping and fuel distribution control facility at a refinery. *Everything* was controlled from that room. They measured flow rates Vs time and claimed they could control the flow to the remote storage facilities hundreds of miles away within several gallons. the system was automated. The operator told it how many gallons of what to go where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor it. Were it only that the ATC system was so automatic, instead of so antiquated. -- Matt Barrow Performance Homes, LLC. Cheyenne, WY |
#229
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Gasohol
He may cut early. middle or late; it depends on the two products. The schedulers try to make adjacent 'tenders' friendly. Interesting post. Thanks Dave Paul N1431A KPLU |
#230
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Gasohol
Blueskies wrote: Thanks Dave! Can 87 octane be mixed with ~93 octane to arrive at 90 octane? Seems like a lot of black magic (no pun intended) in the oil business... That's exactly how they make the mid grade gas. |
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