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#11
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What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?
On Jan 25, 12:31*pm, Andy wrote:
On Jan 25, 9:55*am, John Cochrane wrote: On Jan 24, 6:51*pm, R S wrote: At the IGC meeting in March, we will decide whether to require FLARM at World Gliding Championships. * No brainer. Yes. But hardly necessary, as I think we've all got the message now. The rest of the thread here should calm down John, What rule would you propose? *How will that rule take account of the non zero probability that a FLARM will fail. As you said the rule is hardly necessary since we all got the message. Andy A world contest can say "you have to have a flarm" the same way they can say "you have to have a parachute" and "you can't have a turn and bank." It's part of the scrutineering. I don't think there will be a huge problem of people getting a flarm or parachute to show organizers and then deliberately removing them for flight. There is the minor issue of people turning flarm off if they think someone might follow them, but that's a separate issue. I do not favor mandatory flarm for US contests BTW. But it makes much more sense for world events. People are putting a lot (a LOT) of money already into world competition, so extra cost is really not an issue; they have 150 gliders not the 20 that fill a typical US contest, and they have tasks and rules that encourage mass gaggling. 95% already have flarm. John Cochrane |
#12
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What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?
On Jan 25, 1:50*pm, John Cochrane
wrote: On Jan 25, 12:31*pm, Andy wrote: On Jan 25, 9:55*am, John Cochrane wrote: On Jan 24, 6:51*pm, R S wrote: At the IGC meeting in March, we will decide whether to require FLARM at World Gliding Championships. * No brainer. Yes. But hardly necessary, as I think we've all got the message now. The rest of the thread here should calm down John, What rule would you propose? *How will that rule take account of the non zero probability that a FLARM will fail. As you said the rule is hardly necessary since we all got the message. Andy A world contest can say "you have to have a flarm" the same way they can say "you have to have a parachute" and "you can't have a turn and bank." *It's part of the scrutineering. *I don't think there will be a huge problem of people getting a flarm or parachute to show organizers and then deliberately removing them for flight. There is the minor issue of people turning flarm off if they think someone might follow them, but that's a separate issue. I do not favor mandatory flarm for US contests BTW. But it makes much more sense for world events. People are putting a lot (a LOT) of money already into world competition, so extra cost is really not an issue; they have 150 gliders not the 20 that fill a typical US contest, and they have tasks and rules that encourage mass gaggling. 95% already have flarm. John Cochrane I can address the "does anyone bother with badges anymore?" As one of the club CFIGs the badges are a motivator for our students / members. I love the OLC and am a participant. However, the OLC is not the same motivator as a badge and does not have the nostalgia or duration of a badge. The badge program really seems to be getting slammed by competition pilots and I just don't quite get it. Newly certified pilots can ready the Silver requirements and it provides real inspiration as does the ABC/Bronze program. There are plenty of improvements that could be made to make the approval more user friendly but as leaders in the cross country scene lets quit slamming the badge program please. |
#13
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What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?
On Jan 25, 1:01*pm, lanebush wrote:
On Jan 25, 1:50*pm, John Cochrane wrote: On Jan 25, 12:31*pm, Andy wrote: On Jan 25, 9:55*am, John Cochrane wrote: On Jan 24, 6:51*pm, R S wrote: At the IGC meeting in March, we will decide whether to require FLARM at World Gliding Championships. * No brainer. Yes. But hardly necessary, as I think we've all got the message now. The rest of the thread here should calm down John, What rule would you propose? *How will that rule take account of the non zero probability that a FLARM will fail. As you said the rule is hardly necessary since we all got the message.. Andy A world contest can say "you have to have a flarm" the same way they can say "you have to have a parachute" and "you can't have a turn and bank." *It's part of the scrutineering. *I don't think there will be a huge problem of people getting a flarm or parachute to show organizers and then deliberately removing them for flight. There is the minor issue of people turning flarm off if they think someone might follow them, but that's a separate issue. I do not favor mandatory flarm for US contests BTW. But it makes much more sense for world events. People are putting a lot (a LOT) of money already into world competition, so extra cost is really not an issue; they have 150 gliders not the 20 that fill a typical US contest, and they have tasks and rules that encourage mass gaggling. 95% already have flarm. John Cochrane I can address the "does anyone bother with badges anymore?" As one of the club CFIGs the badges are a motivator for our students / members. *I love the OLC and am a participant. *However, the OLC is not the same motivator as a badge and does not have the nostalgia or duration of a badge. *The badge program really seems to be getting slammed by competition pilots and I just don't quite get it. *Newly certified pilots can ready the Silver requirements and it provides real inspiration as does the ABC/Bronze program. *There are plenty of improvements that could be made to make the approval more user friendly but as leaders in the cross country scene lets quit slamming the badge program please. Lane - +1! I love the badge program. Our pilots earned a lot of A,B, and C badges at the club last year and hopefully we can do the same next year. I also spent a fair amount of time working with our new XC pilots and managed to get 100% first time approval on all of our badge applications. We had a lot of fun! |
#14
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What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?
On Jan 25, 1:01*pm, lanebush wrote:
On Jan 25, 1:50*pm, John Cochrane wrote: On Jan 25, 12:31*pm, Andy wrote: On Jan 25, 9:55*am, John Cochrane wrote: On Jan 24, 6:51*pm, R S wrote: At the IGC meeting in March, we will decide whether to require FLARM at World Gliding Championships. * No brainer. Yes. But hardly necessary, as I think we've all got the message now. The rest of the thread here should calm down John, What rule would you propose? *How will that rule take account of the non zero probability that a FLARM will fail. As you said the rule is hardly necessary since we all got the message.. Andy A world contest can say "you have to have a flarm" the same way they can say "you have to have a parachute" and "you can't have a turn and bank." *It's part of the scrutineering. *I don't think there will be a huge problem of people getting a flarm or parachute to show organizers and then deliberately removing them for flight. There is the minor issue of people turning flarm off if they think someone might follow them, but that's a separate issue. I do not favor mandatory flarm for US contests BTW. But it makes much more sense for world events. People are putting a lot (a LOT) of money already into world competition, so extra cost is really not an issue; they have 150 gliders not the 20 that fill a typical US contest, and they have tasks and rules that encourage mass gaggling. 95% already have flarm. John Cochrane I can address the "does anyone bother with badges anymore?" As one of the club CFIGs the badges are a motivator for our students / members. *I love the OLC and am a participant. *However, the OLC is not the same motivator as a badge and does not have the nostalgia or duration of a badge. *The badge program really seems to be getting slammed by competition pilots and I just don't quite get it. *Newly certified pilots can ready the Silver requirements and it provides real inspiration as does the ABC/Bronze program. *There are plenty of improvements that could be made to make the approval more user friendly but as leaders in the cross country scene lets quit slamming the badge program please. I'm sorry if it came out wrong -- no "slam" intended at all. And the whole badge idea is great -- a set of concrete goals to help pilots cut the apron strings and go on to start flying cross country. I just noticed that more pilots seem to be moving straight to OLC and contests and not pursuing badges any more. Kudos to those who do. John Cochrane |
#15
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What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?
On Jan 25, 2:01*pm, lanebush wrote:
On Jan 25, 1:50*pm, John Cochrane wrote: On Jan 25, 12:31*pm, Andy wrote: On Jan 25, 9:55*am, John Cochrane wrote: On Jan 24, 6:51*pm, R S wrote: At the IGC meeting in March, we will decide whether to require FLARM at World Gliding Championships. * No brainer. Yes. But hardly necessary, as I think we've all got the message now. The rest of the thread here should calm down John, What rule would you propose? *How will that rule take account of the non zero probability that a FLARM will fail. As you said the rule is hardly necessary since we all got the message.. Andy A world contest can say "you have to have a flarm" the same way they can say "you have to have a parachute" and "you can't have a turn and bank." *It's part of the scrutineering. *I don't think there will be a huge problem of people getting a flarm or parachute to show organizers and then deliberately removing them for flight. There is the minor issue of people turning flarm off if they think someone might follow them, but that's a separate issue. I do not favor mandatory flarm for US contests BTW. But it makes much more sense for world events. People are putting a lot (a LOT) of money already into world competition, so extra cost is really not an issue; they have 150 gliders not the 20 that fill a typical US contest, and they have tasks and rules that encourage mass gaggling. 95% already have flarm. John Cochrane I can address the "does anyone bother with badges anymore?" As one of the club CFIGs the badges are a motivator for our students / members. *I love the OLC and am a participant. *However, the OLC is not the same motivator as a badge and does not have the nostalgia or duration of a badge. *The badge program really seems to be getting slammed by competition pilots and I just don't quite get it. *Newly certified pilots can ready the Silver requirements and it provides real inspiration as does the ABC/Bronze program. *There are plenty of improvements that could be made to make the approval more user friendly but as leaders in the cross country scene lets quit slamming the badge program please.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I violently agree! The badge program sets a series of good objectives. UH |
#16
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What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 11:01:34 -0800, lanebush wrote:
I can address the "does anyone bother with badges anymore?" As one of the club CFIGs the badges are a motivator for our students / members. I love the OLC and am a participant. However, the OLC is not the same motivator as a badge and does not have the nostalgia or duration of a badge. The badge program really seems to be getting slammed by competition pilots and I just don't quite get it. Newly certified pilots can ready the Silver requirements and it provides real inspiration as does the ABC/Bronze program. There are plenty of improvements that could be made to make the approval more user friendly but as leaders in the cross country scene lets quit slamming the badge program please. +1 In addition I'd like to point out that the badge system, at least as my club uses it, is a direct stepping stone to competition flying. This is because we start out by encouraging the use of predeclared tasks for all XC flying: - Silver distance: fly to a designated gliding club and land there - 100 km diploma: this is a UK qualification that requires a predeclared 100 km task to be scored. 1st leg involves simply flying the task. 2nd leg involves flying the task and achieving a handicapped 65+ kph task speed. - Gold distance: we usually fly that as a Diamond Goal flight and claiming for both - Diamond distance: again we pre-declare it. Our prime reason for pre-declaring an xc flight and leaving a written declaration at the launch point is safety: if the pilot doesn't return or ring in after a land-out we have some idea of where to search. Secondly, flying a predeclared task and making correct use of FAI or beer-can turnpoints is good for honing and keeping navigation skills. -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#17
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What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?
On 1-25-2011 12:51, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 17:35:36 -0800 (PST), wrote: If you mandate FLARM at Uvalde WGC what will you do about visiting pilots that bring their own FLARM equipped gliders. With no FCC certification they will not be legal for use in USA. IGC cannot, or at least should not, mandate an illegal operation. Then CANCEL the WGC at Uvalde. Period. If the organizers of a WGC forbid the use of THE major safety device, they ought to be forbidden to hold ANY international contests. Period. Sorry if I sound angry - but I am. Forbidding the use of FLARM at a WGC is about the dumbest thing that I ever read on r.a.s. Andreas I have no idea what these devices even are (I'm a powered plane guy with just some time in gliders). However, if I understand what you are saying is these devices may not be "type accepted" by the FCC, in which case they would be illegal in the USA. So, are you suggesting that laws be broken just because they are perceived to be a safety device and to just use them anyway? As a (licensed) user of FCC regulated airwaves in my other hobby, I can not condone having illegal "transmitters" used against present FCC regs. I ASSUME these things use transmitters or are they strictly a receive only device? |
#18
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What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:42:02 +0000, Scott
wrote: So, are you suggesting that laws be broken just because they are perceived to be a safety device and to just use them anyway? No. To repeat myself: What I'm suggesting is that an organizer who is prohibiting the use of effective safety equipment should not be allowed to run any competition, especially not the most prestigious one. Cancel the WGC at Uvalde if there is no way to use FLARM legally. Have you ever heard of a Nascar or Formula 1 race where the rules *prohibited* drivers from wearing their safety belts? Andreas |
#19
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What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?
On Jan 25, 4:06*pm, Andreas Maurer wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:42:02 +0000, Scott wrote: So, are you suggesting that laws be broken just because they are perceived to be a safety device and to just use them anyway? * No. To repeat myself: What I'm suggesting is that an organizer who is prohibiting the use of effective safety equipment should not be allowed to run any competition, especially not the most prestigious one. Cancel the WGC at Uvalde if there is no way to use FLARM legally. Have you ever heard of a Nascar or Formula 1 race where the rules *prohibited* drivers from wearing their safety belts? Andreas Where is exactly did you see anyone say that anything was being prohibited by WGC organizers. Will you please quote what you think was said. Otherwise please stop being so upset about an issue that exists only in your imagination. Andy |
#20
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What do you think of mandatory FLARM at Uvalde?
Let's look at this sensibly. The WGC is a year and a half away. In
the next few months, we expect to have FCC approval for a US Flarm. Pre-orders are such that these will be widely in service later in the year and pretty universal for contests by 2012. European Flarms may or may not be FCC approved by then, but there will be rental US units available to enable all gliders to be equipped. Right now, no-one can mandate an approved Flarm unit in the USA because there aren't any! That will likely change in the near future. None of us are suggesting that encouraging the devices is bad, and they are certainly not going to be banned, but it's just too early to say how we will accomplish equipping the competing gliders. Mike |
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