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#11
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Undoubtedly had some stupid-ass Commander writing his evals instead of
his Division Chief... OUCH!! :-) Larry AECS (AW/SW/MTS) Disabled Combat Veteran USN Retired 20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror and getting further away every day ;-) "Charlie Wolf" wrote in message ... Undoubtedly had some stupid-ass Commander writing his evals instead of his Division Chief... Regards, (CPO, Ret.) On 28 Nov 2003 15:53:20 GMT, (Pechs1) wrote: uume- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ategory=36 06 8 BRBR 16 years in and still a PO1?? Wonder who he ****ed off.... P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#12
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Absolutely Right Dave, thanks for clarifying and expounding on that.
Not everyone can make Chief. We don't all possess those desired leadership qualities we look for in advancing a sailor to Chief. Being just technically competent won't get you selected. If you don't possess those needed leadership skills, the only other way to make it is to "suck up" as you stated and slip through the cracks, and wind up as an E-7, kinda like the other services. You never did get the fact that the "brass" that writes your evals are the Chiefs? (whom in your words are incompetent) I suppose if you woulda made it you would have been the only competent one? See, they all sit around in the mess, recognize who has those needed leadership skills, then proceed to groom and write the future leaders the good evals and rankings. They don't want an E7 technician in thier mess that can't lead. They want a Chief in their mess. OBTW all of us CWO's/LDO's (thousands) all "sucked up" to promote from E1 to where we are now. Glad you enlightened us all. Thanks On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 01:08:41 GMT, Dave in San Diego wrote: Michael Wise wrote in : In article , (UUMe) wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...98881&category =36068 Four idiot stripes and still an E-6. How many watches did you fall asleep on? --Mike Begging your pardon, SIR... A sixteen year corpsman in today's Navy is not unusual, as it wasn't when I retired some years ago. Not everyone can make Chief, and in the current competitive environment, it's not what you know, it's who gets the best suck-up points. When the eval system becomes objective, and the brass who write and approve them become competent, then maybe the promotion system will work like it's supposed to. Having said that, HM1 X could have been "entirely competent" at that level, but still "lacking critical leadership skills mnecessary to advance to Chief Petty Officer". Not all you folks make Captain; not all of us make Chief. Dave Bowles AT1 USN Ret quoted from my own evals |
#13
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That coming from a retired Chief, Charlie Wolf. I guess retiring as a
Chief is pretty ambitious, probably never thought you would make E6 and everything after that was gravy right??? The jokes on you Pal, how do you know that "Commander" isn't an LDO and was also a Chief, but had a little more ambition? OBTW the division Chief you were referring to is more of a stupid ass for letting the Commander write the E6's eval!!! was On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 20:13:57 -0800, "Larry" wrote: Undoubtedly had some stupid-ass Commander writing his evals instead of his Division Chief... OUCH!! :-) Larry AECS (AW/SW/MTS) Disabled Combat Veteran USN Retired 20 years of Navy in my rear view mirror and getting further away every day ;-) "Charlie Wolf" wrote in message .. . Undoubtedly had some stupid-ass Commander writing his evals instead of his Division Chief... Regards, (CPO, Ret.) On 28 Nov 2003 15:53:20 GMT, (Pechs1) wrote: uume- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ategory=36 06 8 BRBR 16 years in and still a PO1?? Wonder who he ****ed off.... P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#14
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cwolf- Undoubtedly had some stupid-ass Commander writing his evals instead of
his Division Chief... Regards, (CPO, Ret.) BRBR c'mon Chief, that's a little harsh, don ya think?? I wrote lots 'o evals but always looked for a rough from the Div CPO or branch PO1...But to massage these things to get the deserving selected was a skill tht took years to hone..Some COs had, some didn't.. P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#15
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dave- Not all you folks make Captain; not all of us make Chief. BRBR
The epitomy of rank in the USN officer corps is O-5, where you can get your first command and where you can retire at 20 years...and where you can generally still fly. O-6 is not, not many guys I knew made O-6 before 20 years... P. C. Chisholm CDR, USN(ret.) Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer |
#16
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#17
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user wrote in
: Absolutely Right Dave, thanks for clarifying and expounding on that. Not everyone can make Chief. We don't all possess those desired leadership qualities we look for in advancing a sailor to Chief. Being just technically competent won't get you selected. If you don't possess those needed leadership skills, the only other way to make it is to "suck up" as you stated and slip through the cracks, and wind up as an E-7, kinda like the other services. You never did get the fact that the "brass" that writes your evals are the Chiefs? (whom in your words are incompetent) Nope, never said that. Many of my evals were modified by officers who couldn't write, and refused to change them because they thought they were legends in their own minds. There were also those who were wired into believing that all the marks had to be within a bracket, say 3.4 to 3.8, or 3.6 to 4.0, or even more extreme, only one mark apart - 3.6 or 3.8, and nothing outside. I worked for more than one DO who thought you absolutely couldn't give someone a 4.0 and a 3.2 on the same eval. (The guy I did that for had a poster-grade uniform and a short-timers attitude, and fully deserved both marks.) Those evals that were written by Chiefs and sent thru the system as written usually came out pretty well. I suppose if you woulda made it you would have been the only competent one? Nope, never said that either. But I did give basic writing classes at a couple of commands, as a first class. See, they all sit around in the mess, recognize who has those needed leadership skills, then proceed to groom and write the future leaders the good evals and rankings. They don't want an E7 technician in thier mess that can't lead. They want a Chief in their mess. Agree 100%! That's why i didn't get there, but my wife did. I'm a better technician, but she's a better leader. There were those whose "friendliness" could do a lot for them, though. OBTW all of us CWO's/LDO's (thousands) all "sucked up" to promote from E1 to where we are now. Glad you enlightened us all. Thanks Well, the suck-up thing might have been a bit harsh, now that I've had an opportunity to back off for a bit. "Aw ****s" seem to count a lot worse now than they used to, and even one can be the kiss of death these days, instead of being the learning opportunity it could be made into 20 yrs ago. Getting beyond those "aw ****s" can be an area where that friendliness I spoke of above could give an unfair advantage for some. I retired in 1989, so my personal participation in the great eval game ended then. I saw what happened in my wife's various divisions until 2000, when she retired. I got to see the system from an outsider's viewpoint during those 11 years, and noticed a significant change between my retirement and hers. Some changes were good, some not so good. I still think the system is flawed despite all the changes I've seen in 30+ years, and will continue to hamper some folks who deserve promotion but can't get it because they don't fit someone's mold. I do accept that at least part of your response may have been tongue-in- cheek, but I thought the original comment about the 16-year first class was out of line and felt compelled to reply. Dave in San Diego -- - "For once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward; For there you have been, and there you long to return." Leonardo da Vinci |
#18
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"Ogden Johnson III" wrote in message ... John Miller wrote: Larry wrote: I bet that's your auction there "UUMe" and your trying to get a little traffic? It looked a little suspicious even before a quick check showed that the eBay seller and Usenet poster were both in Houston. I didn't see any mention of the Kitty Hawk in a cursory check of the link, so add to the suspicion list "How did UUMe know they were worn by a Kitty Hawk sailor?" Must have been real cursory: "Kitty Hawk" is in at least two places in the eBay ad. |
#19
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"victims of the rate". Just not enough billets to promote them all. All I could tell them was "hang in there, keep up the great job and your time will come". Larry AECS (AW/SW/MTS) Disabled Combat Veteran USN Retired "Victims of rate", this is or was the case with AT's, I encountered this going from E-3 to E-4, then again from E-4 to E-5. As a four year guy, I started out life as an AR, graduated from A school as a ATAA, mean while the 6 year guys were graduating as AT3's. Then after doing my TIR, and finally making AT3, I once again encountered the "victim of rate" the AT3's (rent-a-crows) were graduating from AFTA (advanced first term avionics school) or AFTA-births as we called them, getting ready to take AT2, while I was installing tracking gear on rotor blades, paralleling generators, changing the "greenhouse" window after the Q/A chief stepped through it, etc, etc. But I really can't complain, I did my 4, and got out, and thanks to my "nothing but a black box puller" "O" level career, spent the past 16 years doing it on the civilian side for a much better pay and no sea duty. So being a "victim of rate" work out great for me. So I can see how in some rates it would not be uncommon for a hard charg'in, 4.0 sailor to retire an E-6. J BTW, as for those who say, the numbers are figured out before hand, and the Navy takes only so many AFTA guys and regular guys its BS. I like many others who make there required time to graduate, we were ask if we were to extend for 2 years, you can walk out of school as a E-4 instead of an E-2. Fortunitly for me 1989 sounded like forever in 1983, I passed, many other did'nt. |
#20
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Dave,
That last posting by you actually had some class! You know it's different on both sides of the fence. Of course I've seen the changes myself after 22 years active. Today's eval/fitrep system still needs work but is helluva lot better than 10 years ago. I was in a NAMTRA as an E6 with 38 other PO1's, all 4.0!!! The closest friend I have here now is a retired E6, best AT you ever seen as a technician. He was the library of knowledge for the EP3. But it wasn't just one persons mold he didn't fit, it was the Navy's mold he didn't fit for making Chief. I tried to point out that it just isn't an advancement in rank, the rank of Chief is a whole new realm. Nowadays its all about the "ranking". In aviation, (this is an aviation newsgroup), all the commands I've been in let the Chiefs rank the E6 and below. Of course it's the Skippers perogative to change that, but if he does, he has some 'splainin to o to the Chiefs Mess. On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 04:27:03 GMT, Dave in San Diego wrote: user wrote in : Absolutely Right Dave, thanks for clarifying and expounding on that. Not everyone can make Chief. We don't all possess those desired leadership qualities we look for in advancing a sailor to Chief. Being just technically competent won't get you selected. If you don't possess those needed leadership skills, the only other way to make it is to "suck up" as you stated and slip through the cracks, and wind up as an E-7, kinda like the other services. You never did get the fact that the "brass" that writes your evals are the Chiefs? (whom in your words are incompetent) Nope, never said that. Many of my evals were modified by officers who couldn't write, and refused to change them because they thought they were legends in their own minds. There were also those who were wired into believing that all the marks had to be within a bracket, say 3.4 to 3.8, or 3.6 to 4.0, or even more extreme, only one mark apart - 3.6 or 3.8, and nothing outside. I worked for more than one DO who thought you absolutely couldn't give someone a 4.0 and a 3.2 on the same eval. (The guy I did that for had a poster-grade uniform and a short-timers attitude, and fully deserved both marks.) Those evals that were written by Chiefs and sent thru the system as written usually came out pretty well. I suppose if you woulda made it you would have been the only competent one? Nope, never said that either. But I did give basic writing classes at a couple of commands, as a first class. See, they all sit around in the mess, recognize who has those needed leadership skills, then proceed to groom and write the future leaders the good evals and rankings. They don't want an E7 technician in thier mess that can't lead. They want a Chief in their mess. Agree 100%! That's why i didn't get there, but my wife did. I'm a better technician, but she's a better leader. There were those whose "friendliness" could do a lot for them, though. OBTW all of us CWO's/LDO's (thousands) all "sucked up" to promote from E1 to where we are now. Glad you enlightened us all. Thanks Well, the suck-up thing might have been a bit harsh, now that I've had an opportunity to back off for a bit. "Aw ****s" seem to count a lot worse now than they used to, and even one can be the kiss of death these days, instead of being the learning opportunity it could be made into 20 yrs ago. Getting beyond those "aw ****s" can be an area where that friendliness I spoke of above could give an unfair advantage for some. I retired in 1989, so my personal participation in the great eval game ended then. I saw what happened in my wife's various divisions until 2000, when she retired. I got to see the system from an outsider's viewpoint during those 11 years, and noticed a significant change between my retirement and hers. Some changes were good, some not so good. I still think the system is flawed despite all the changes I've seen in 30+ years, and will continue to hamper some folks who deserve promotion but can't get it because they don't fit someone's mold. I do accept that at least part of your response may have been tongue-in- cheek, but I thought the original comment about the 16-year first class was out of line and felt compelled to reply. Dave in San Diego |
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