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#1
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TE errors
My system, a L-Nav and a Winter variometer. Both have their own capacities,
but they share a TE probe. I have begun to see some bad compensation and getting some 'stick' thermals. Where should I start looking for leaks, etc.? Thanks, Fred Blair |
#2
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f.blair wrote:
My system, a L-Nav and a Winter variometer. Both have their own capacities, but they share a TE probe. I have begun to see some bad compensation and getting some 'stick' thermals. Where should I start looking for leaks, etc.? Well, the obvious thing would be to try to isolate the problem. Take the Winter out of the system and fly with the L-NAV alone, then vice-versa. If you see stick thermals in both cases, the leak is someplace between the panel and the probe, or you need to start filing/filling the end of the probe (assuming it is a Nicks type). If you have problems with one, but not the other, the leak is somewhere around or in the one that has the problem. If you get good compensation in both cases, you likely have cross-flow between the two varios, and need to move the split farther back from the panel. Marc |
#3
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If you are getting 'stick thermals' the leak is between
the instruments and the probe. The likeliest place is where the probe plugs into the fin, failing that it is probably somewhere in the tubing and connections under the panel. If you have one of the screw up connectors (four or sic tube) that connect all of the pane plumbing to the incoming tubes, make sure the 'O' rings in it are not perished/damaged and it is done up tightly. The T or Y pieces that connect the tubes together quite often crack at the corners. Sometimes the plastic tubes harden with age and no longer make a good seal at the connections, easiest thing is just replace the tubing with new stuff. If you are really unlucky, the leak could be somewhere inside the fusilage or fin, most likely the connection just inside the fin where the probe enters. Fortunatly that is rare. Good luck At 02:30 06 March 2005, F.Blair wrote: My system, a L-Nav and a Winter variometer. Both have their own capacities, but they share a TE probe. I have begun to see some bad compensation and getting some 'stick' thermals. Where should I start looking for leaks, etc.? Thanks, Fred Blair |
#4
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I agree with everything in the 2 previous replies.
The very first thing I would do is disconnect your TE line as close to the instruments as possible, make sure that it has no other connections to other instruments (eg is it a 2 seater?), tape over the little holes in the TE probe and test whether the line holds positive or negative pressure. As Chris says a tiny leak in that line could be from the TE tube seal or from a connector in the line but a big leak like an open tube would likely be the end of the tube having fallen off the connector in the fin. In the case of an open tube it is surprisingly easy to identify the approximate position of the leak by using the bell end a stethoscope on the side of the glider fuselage and fin while someone blows into the tube. The stethoscope needs to have a close seal to the surface to work properly. A bit more of a problem to get pictures or a view of the disconnected tube inside the fin to for absolute confirmation of the right place to cut the required hole in the fin to reconnect the tube. (This is comes from experiences with a newly delivered glider - tie wraps aren't the best way of holding tubes onto connectors) If the rear end of your system is OK then follow the previous posters' advice about the panel end of the system. John Galloway At 08:30 06 March 2005, Chris Rollings wrote: If you are getting 'stick thermals' the leak is between the instruments and the probe. The likeliest place is where the probe plugs into the fin, failing that it is probably somewhere in the tubing and connections under the panel. If you have one of the screw up connectors (four or sic tube) that connect all of the pane plumbing to the incoming tubes, make sure the 'O' rings in it are not perished/damaged and it is done up tightly. The T or Y pieces that connect the tubes together quite often crack at the corners. Sometimes the plastic tubes harden with age and no longer make a good seal at the connections, easiest thing is just replace the tubing with new stuff. If you are really unlucky, the leak could be somewhere inside the fusilage or fin, most likely the connection just inside the fin where the probe enters. Fortunatly that is rare. Good luck At 02:30 06 March 2005, F.Blair wrote: My system, a L-Nav and a Winter variometer. Both have their own capacities, but they share a TE probe. I have begun to see some bad compensation and getting some 'stick' thermals. Where should I start looking for leaks, etc.? Thanks, Fred Blair |
#5
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"John Galloway" wrote in message ... I agree with everything in the 2 previous replies. The very first thing I would do is disconnect your TE line as close to the instruments as possible, make sure that it has no other connections to other instruments (eg is it a 2 seater?), tape over the little holes in the TE probe and test whether the line holds positive or negative pressure. As Chris says a tiny leak in that line could be from the TE tube seal or from a connector in the line but a big leak like an open tube would likely be the end of the tube having fallen off the connector in the fin. In the case of an open tube it is surprisingly easy to identify the approximate position of the leak by using the bell end a stethoscope on the side of the glider fuselage and fin while someone blows into the tube. The stethoscope needs to have a close seal to the surface to work properly. A bit more of a problem to get pictures or a view of the disconnected tube inside the fin to for absolute confirmation of the right place to cut the required hole in the fin to reconnect the tube. (This is comes from experiences with a newly delivered glider - tie wraps aren't the best way of holding tubes onto connectors) If the rear end of your system is OK then follow the previous posters' advice about the panel end of the system. John Galloway At 08:30 06 March 2005, Chris Rollings wrote: If you are getting 'stick thermals' the leak is between the instruments and the probe. The likeliest place is where the probe plugs into the fin, failing that it is probably somewhere in the tubing and connections under the panel. If you have one of the screw up connectors (four or sic tube) that connect all of the pane plumbing to the incoming tubes, make sure the 'O' rings in it are not perished/damaged and it is done up tightly. The T or Y pieces that connect the tubes together quite often crack at the corners. Sometimes the plastic tubes harden with age and no longer make a good seal at the connections, easiest thing is just replace the tubing with new stuff. If you are really unlucky, the leak could be somewhere inside the fusilage or fin, most likely the connection just inside the fin where the probe enters. Fortunatly that is rare. Good luck At 02:30 06 March 2005, F.Blair wrote: My system, a L-Nav and a Winter variometer. Both have their own capacities, but they share a TE probe. I have begun to see some bad compensation and getting some 'stick' thermals. Where should I start looking for leaks, etc.? Thanks, Fred Blair One thing I'd use a vacuum test and not risk blowing the tube off the end that's good!!! Peter. |
#6
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At 21:00 06 March 2005, Peter Seddon wrote:
'John Galloway' wrote in message ... I agree with everything in the 2 previous replies. The very first thing I would do is disconnect your TE line as close to the instruments as possible, make sure that it has no other connections to other instruments (eg is it a 2 seater?), tape over the little holes in the TE probe and test whether the line holds positive or negative pressure. As Chris says a tiny leak in that line could be from the TE tube seal or from a connector in the line but a big leak like an open tube would likely be the end of the tube having fallen off the connector in the fin. In the case of an open tube it is surprisingly easy to identify the approximate position of the leak by using the bell end a stethoscope on the side of the glider fuselage and fin while someone blows into the tube. The stethoscope needs to have a close seal to the surface to work properly. A bit more of a problem to get pictures or a view of the disconnected tube inside the fin to for absolute confirmation of the right place to cut the required hole in the fin to reconnect the tube. (This is comes from experiences with a newly delivered glider - tie wraps aren't the best way of holding tubes onto connectors) If the rear end of your system is OK then follow the previous posters' advice about the panel end of the system. John Galloway At 08:30 06 March 2005, Chris Rollings wrote: If you are getting 'stick thermals' the leak is between the instruments and the probe. The likeliest place is where the probe plugs into the fin, failing that it is probably somewhere in the tubing and connections under the panel. If you have one of the screw up connectors (four or sic tube) that connect all of the pane plumbing to the incoming tubes, make sure the 'O' rings in it are not perished/damaged and it is done up tightly. The T or Y pieces that connect the tubes together quite often crack at the corners. Sometimes the plastic tubes harden with age and no longer make a good seal at the connections, easiest thing is just replace the tubing with new stuff. If you are really unlucky, the leak could be somewhere inside the fusilage or fin, most likely the connection just inside the fin where the probe enters. Fortunatly that is rare. Good luck At 02:30 06 March 2005, F.Blair wrote: My system, a L-Nav and a Winter variometer. Both have their own capacities, but they share a TE probe. I have begun to see some bad compensation and getting some 'stick' thermals. Where should I start looking for leaks, etc.? Thanks, Fred Blair One thing I'd use a vacuum test and not risk blowing the tube off the end that's good!!! Peter. Yes I agree. It didn't occur to me that anyone would think of applying a lot of positive pressure to a sealed or almost sealed system. The simplest first step is just to use gentle oral suction and stick your tongue over the end of the tube to see if it keeps a seal. However if you find almost no resistance and there is clearly a disconnected tube somewhere then blowing hard enough to make a sound that can be picked up by a stethoscope along the fin and tailboom is the easiest way I know to narrow down the site of the disconnection. In our case I could clearly hear that the the tube was disconnected at the top of the fin. John Galloway |
#7
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This article from borgelt will answer most questions:
http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/Leaks.pdf Walter |
#8
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Seems to be a good procedure,
thank you Walter |
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