ASW27B prices falling

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 1:10:27 PM UTC-6, wrote:

Does your '27 have a max gross of more than 1102 lb?
Curious.
UH

Hank, I would consider you to be much more knowledgable about these models than I am. As far as I know, both models were certified to 500kg = 1102.31 lbs. max mass, but some pilots of average size/mass in the straight 27 with water bags had reported having difficulty getting enough water in the wings to reach that. Large pilots or gliders heavy from repairs/excess equipment would not have that difficulty. The wet wings work very well and hold all the water they were designed for. Like you did on yours, mine has much bigger dump valves and plumbing installed which gives very good dump times.

Another straight 27- 27B difference is the taller factory winglets on the B model, giving slightly more effective span. Some have reported slightly better handling. I doubt I would be able to tell the difference, but possibly some can. As you know, the handling is absolutely superb on any of these- with or without full water.

Gary

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 4:14:48 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 1:10:27 PM UTC-6, wrote:

Does your '27 have a max gross of more than 1102 lb?
Curious.
UH

Hank, I would consider you to be much more knowledgable about these models than I am. As far as I know, both models were certified to 500kg = 1102..31 lbs. max mass, but some pilots of average size/mass in the straight 27 with water bags had reported having difficulty getting enough water in the wings to reach that. Large pilots or gliders heavy from repairs/excess equipment would not have that difficulty. The wet wings work very well and hold all the water they were designed for. Like you did on yours, mine has much bigger dump valves and plumbing installed which gives very good dump times..

Another straight 27- 27B difference is the taller factory winglets on the B model, giving slightly more effective span. Some have reported slightly better handling. I doubt I would be able to tell the difference, but possibly some can. As you know, the handling is absolutely superb on any of these- with or without full water.

Gary

You are quite right that the earlier 27's can be harder to get to max weight.

On Thursday, August 10, 2017 at 4:41:35 PM UTC-6, wrote:

Which one to buy? Buy the one in the best condition. An early one can be made to go as well as the last one off the line, admittedly with maybe a bit more work.
UH

I think this is the best advice. When I shopped for mine I consulted Gerhard Waibel and Loek Boermans, both of which I had known since the 90's and worked with some on classification and certification issues on the IGC's Sailplane Development Panel. I decided to buy an early model wet wing which had been expertly re-profiled by Fidel at Applebay aviation and has an essentially flawless finish and contour control. Some feel that mold stability changes somewhat with the passage of time and multiple production runs, so this is also possibly a factor to consider. I think one other point to look for is whether or not the wing lift pins have been replaced properly. If this hasn't been done, it will need to be done with time.

Re water capacities, the ASW 27/27B manual specifies early production bag capacity as limited to 26 gallons, optional and later larger bags 37 gallons (probably all straight 27's by now), and the integrated wet wings 51 gallons.

Other comments that the design performs as well as anything out there in 15m are probably accurate. The Diana 2 can be a bit of a handful to fly- and I would expect Sebastian Kawa to generally win whether he flies one of those or a 27. The JS-3 appears to be a beautiful design, but truly all of these are very similar in specifications. High wing integrations have been around for awhile (I have that on my Stemme) but mostly benefit low velocity flight. Whether or not that can make up for slightly less projected wing area, at the cost of more area than a straight dihedral implementation and a little bit of flow disturbance with kinked span-wise camber is the question. For the money, the ASW-27 series is a proven design with superb performance, handling, and safety factors- including outstanding short field landing performance with the sophisticated flap mixer system. In good conditions and loaded up, the running performance at 200-220kmh is remarkable.

I would expect Hank to know 27's about as well as anyone in this country and his advice would be valuable to would-be buyers.

Gary