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#52
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"M Power" wrote
I'm not jealous at all. But I really don't like the fact that someone so un-deserving of all this is getting so much. It's just a piece of cloth. Get a grip boy. There are hundreds of veterans from Afghanistan and Iraq that went through more than she did, and got squat. They got combat pay, they earned their citizenship, what else is there? A young Marine had his leg blown off from a landmine right in front of me. He got stitched up, awarded a Purple Heart and sent home. He's recieved nothing that comes close to what PFC Lynch has recieved. Violin sounds. You are breaking my heart. It's unfair, and it ****es me off. People driving solo in a car-pool lane does the same for me. If that makes me jealous, or rude, or whatever you want to call it...so be it. You are 8-Up my friend. Get your **** back in the sack. But with all of the actual heros we have in this country (other war vets, firefighters from 911, etc...), it truly bothers me that someone who isn't a hero at all gets treated like one. I won't apologize or feel bad for feeling this way. She's a hero because we say she is, and your vote doesn't count. I feel good she got a piece of cloth, but I feel even better that she didn't get zapped. That's the truth. I feel that way about all people who don't get zapped in the ultimate game we call armed conflict. |
#53
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"Gord Beaman" wrote in message ... This is quite true. It's also sad that the average person will be more impressed with her getting the medal and all the obvious PR bull**** than to be impressed with the Army if it had followed the proper procedures WRT medals and given her only those she had earned then scooting her home quietly. This is what SHOULD have impressed the most people. Perhaps it's really true when they say "Bull**** baffles Brains". What would have impressed me more would have been the Army requiring combat training to all troops ala USMC style. You didn't hear of Marine supply convoys getting snuffed. The Lynch PR spin IMHO is to deflect attention away from the fact that the unit was completely combat ineffective, couldn't navigate, couldn't communicate, and had no combat escort. They were given a map and told "See ya in Baghdad!" The Army has forgotten the idea that everyone is a Soldier first. |
#54
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Subject: PFC Lynch gets a Bronze Star?
From: "S. Sampson" Date: 7/25/03 7:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: "M Power" wrote I'm not jealous at all. But I really don't like the fact that someone so un-deserving of all this is getting so much. It's just a piece of cloth. Get a grip boy. There are hundreds of veterans from Afghanistan and Iraq that went through more than she did, and got squat. They got combat pay, they earned their citizenship, what else is there? A young Marine had his leg blown off from a landmine right in front of me. He got stitched up, awarded a Purple Heart and sent home. He's recieved nothing that comes close to what PFC Lynch has recieved. That is not her fault. But with all of the actual heros we have in this country (other war vets, firefighters from 911, etc...), it truly bothers me that someone who isn't a hero at all gets treated like one. Not a hero at all? Anyone who wears a purple heart is in a sense a hero.Are you now trashing the Purple Heart? I feel good she got a piece of cloth, but I feel even better that she didn't get zapped. That's the truth. I feel that way about all people who don't get zapped in the ultimate game we call armed conflict. Too few are unfamiliar wih that game. Arthur Kramer Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#55
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some weeny wrote Well then I guess I'm the only here qualified to criticize her BS. You all need to just shut up;-) No there are quite a few on this NG who faced the enemy. But very few have anything to say against her BS. . Arthur Kramer Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer We agree on that one, Art. What a bunch of back stabbing wannabees. |
#56
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ubject: PFC Lynch gets a Bronze Star?
From: Richard Lamb Date: 7/25/03 8:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: some weeny wrote Well then I guess I'm the only here qualified to criticize her BS. You all need to just shut up;-) No there are quite a few on this NG who faced the enemy. But very few have anything to say against her BS. . Arthur Kramer Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer We agree on that one, Art. What a bunch of back stabbing wannabees. Couldn't have said it better myself. (sigh) Arthur Kramer Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#57
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(M Power) wrote in message . com...
(Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com... (M Power) wrote in message . com... (Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com... (M Power) wrote in message . com... (Kevin Brooks) wrote in message . com... (M Power) wrote in message . com... You are the one that is not making sense. In the Bosnia/Kosovo campaign, only 204 Army BS were handed out. Out of those, only 25 enlisted Army soldiers recieved one. The lowest rank being an E-8. Whoopie. So, are you now saying she did not deserve it because she was not of a high enough grade? And what were those BS's awarded for? Meritorious service, right? Usually with no involvement in ambushes, injury, becoming a POW, acquiting oneself honorably under those conditions, etc.? Negative! A person of ANY grade should recieve a BS is they deserve it. My point was that the only lower grade personnel that recieved it did a hell of lot more than PFC Lynch did to get theirs. It's an embarrassment to them, as well the medal, to give her one for her *actions* when others have had to be in far more dangerous situations than she wss in to recieve theirs. LOL! How many BS winners, without "V"s, as her award was, have "had to be in far more dangerous situations" than a freakin' *ambush* to get those awards?! For gosh sakes--she got the same award they routinely handed out to the vast *majority* of mid-level and higher officers during ODS who never saw a shot fired in anger, and you want to break her balls (or lack thereof)? Get real. What, you are not going to argue that all of those staff pogues getting the BS did so for actions in close combat?! I am surprised... And I note the quick backpeddle you have performed regarding your earlier claim that folks have been parachuting into DZ's and rescuing pilots and getting less than the BS w/o V device....not exactly a big surprise. Snipping your incorrect statements does not make them go away... No backpeddling here. I misread his original post and thought when he said "medic", he meant PJ. That's why I used the analogy. But, yes..you're correct in your assumption that I don't know "off the top of my head" what medals PJ's earned for saving downed pilots. But the fact is neither do you, so trying to use it to help your argument makes you look desperate. Au contraire. The last PJ I recall ("off the top of my head") who got decorated (though I am sure some from Afghanistan and Iraqi have been recognized by now) was the PJ in Mogadishu who got the Silver Star--a bit more than your "they get nothin'", huh? Do a google and you should be able to find his name; there were a couple of articles written about it at the time. They only recieved these for holding extremely high levels of responsibility, Bull poopie. The entire staff of my former BN (minus one single individual) got the BS during ODS. I don't claim they did not deserve that award (without V's), but the fact of the matter is that this was a *theater level* engineer unit staff that spent the entire war in Saudi Arabia. Folks in that unit as low as E-7 also received it, and not one of them either faced an ambush or served a a PW. All you have done is shown more proof of how watered down the medal has become. Giving one to PFC Lynch has added to this effect immensely. Crap. You still seem to have a real problem understanding that the BS w/o V is, and has been for decades, a rather common award for meritorious service during a period of conflict; it appears that what normally rates an ARCOM during peacetime service gets the old BS if you happen to find yourself in-theater. Lynch's award, without the V, has only added to this "effect" in the minds of those who apparently base their own selfworth on the ribbons and awards they have garnered, and who can't seem to be able to read the requirements set forth in the regs for its award. I do NOT believe PFC Lynch deserves a BS with a "V" or without a "V". Too bad your opinion does not count in the DA Form 638 (IIRC) process that resulted in her award, huh? You think she deserves one without. I have read the 1650 manual enough times to have a full understanding of what constitutes deserving a BS. I simply don't believe what she went through justifies her recieveing one. You do. So we disagree. And here we are. or for saving someone's life. Jessica Lynch did none of these thngs. The latter would normally garner a "V", which she did not get. As to meritorious service, your definition may vary with mileage, but the fact of the matter is that a bunch of them have been awarded for more mundane activities, and will be for the current operation--you can bet on it. She got a BS for purely political reasons. How do you *know* that? Because it's obvious. The sun obviously rises and sets every day--does that make it "obvious" that the sun is rotating around the earth instead of vice versa? She's become america's sweetheart. She's all over the news, she was given a new car, she has a free ride to college, and she'll probably have a book deal and make tons of money. Do you live under a rock? You sound terribly jealous and more than a bit petty over what she has received. Remember that she did not ASK for any of this, from getting wounded to receiving the BS. She did her duty, and by all accounts it was performed honorably under conditions that most of us will never encounter--that's good enough for me. I'm not jealous at all. But I really don't like the fact that someone so un-deserving of all this is getting so much. In your own self-serving opinion. There are hundreds of veterans from Afghanistan and Iraq that went through more than she did, and got squat. A young Marine had his leg blown off from a landmine right in front of me. He got stitched up, awarded a Purple Heart and sent home. He's recieved nothing that comes close to what PFC Lynch has recieved. So the fact that one person, or many persons, from different units/services were *not* recognized, however grievous that oversight might be, justifies slogging the reputation and service of someone like Lynch who was fortunate enough to be recognized? That does not sound very logical to me. How many folks are slogging *your* actions that resulted in your BS because they may have done *more* and gone unrecognized? Should you therefore turn in your own award? It's unfair, and it ****es me off. Too bad. If it makes you feel any better, a lot of awards that you probably have NOT been aware of have also been given out, like that to the tank BN commander from the 3rd ID who led his troops in a close fight with Iraqi armor (he got the SS). Sure the media is on Lynch like stink on poopie--but that does not mean SHE asked for it, nor does it mean this is the only BS that has been awarded. Or are you also mad at CNN because they have not done a major story on *every* awardee? If that makes me jealous, or rude, or whatever you want to call it...so be it. Yep. But with all of the actual heros we have in this country (other war vets, firefighters from 911, etc...), it truly bothers me that someone who isn't a hero at all gets treated like one. I won't apologize or feel bad for feeling this way. Too bad--all of that pent up anger can be bad for you, especially when it is so badly misdirected. But hey, you are the guy who thinks being in the KZ of an enmy ambush is no different from being in a fender bender on I-95, right? Methinks few are agreeing with you on *any* of this. She doesn't deserve to wear it, Pardon me if I don't accept your whining as definitive proof of that. The only whining here is from you. You're like a "no-nothing" sheep that blindly follows the herd. Funny, coming from a guy who can't seem to grasp that the BS w/o V is not a decoration awarded for valor. Because everyone else thinks she's a hero, you think she's one as well. It's pretty funny, actually;-) Nope, I don't think she is a hero; but then again, I don't think anybody who has the BS w/o V is a "hero", not based upon that item alone. Even the guys I persnally have known who had the V did not think of themselves as "heroic"--are you getting this award mixed up with the SS, DSC, and MOH, or for that matter the Soldier's Medal? Well, are you?! and the BS has been watered down even more by her receiving it. Yep, as you've said, it really is that simple. Then why can't you seem to *get* it? 'Nuff said. been fun, and the plain fact is that tomorrow when we awaken Jessica will still have her BS, and there is not a thing you can do about it (which given your poor understanding of what the award really conotates is probably a good thing....) Have you ever been in combat? Oh, boy! What are you, a graduate of the Art Kramer School of Those Combat Qualified to Belittle the Efforts of Others? Have you ever recieved a Combat "V" for heroism? Nope. Had some friends who did. Also served with some who did more than they did and got zilch. Well I *have*. Ah....! Your reasoning now becomes clear! You have a BS w/V, and, not realizing that the BS w/o V is routinely awarded for rather mundane activities, feel that awarding Jessica the BS w/o V belittles your own station in life. Don't worry; those who understand the awards system will continue to recognize that the V denotes some degree of valor involved in winning the award (but not necessarilly that you are a self-designated "hero"). I can only laugh at this. You don't know me so I imagine it's easy for you to be so presumptious. Not presumptuous. You are the fellow who has repeatedly identified the BS as being (properly) indicative of "heroism", right? If you knew me at all you would understand how ridiculous this sounds. PFC lynch could have recieved a MOH and it wouldn't do a thing to belittle me or reduce my self-esteem. If she deserved it, I'd be thrilled to see her get it. I'm fine in that regard, but thank you very much for your concern:-) I'm no hero, and never said I was. Yeah, in a roundabout way you did. You said: "It's an embarrassment to them, as well the medal, to give her one for her *actions* when others have had to be in far more dangerous situations than she wss in to recieve theirs." Which is of course patently false--the NCO's who I knew who got the BS during ODS never got within 100 miles of the FLOT. You also said: "...someone who isn't a hero at all gets treated like one..." in reference to her BS (which was not after all awarded for "heroism"). Now just what the heck is the implication of that other than to say that if she *was* a hero she'd deserve that BS? You see how with such comments you are building a nice "frame of reference" for your own award, so to speak? So my "understanding" far exceeds yours, No, your paranoia regarding your own selfworth and the effect of Lynch getting the BS upon it exceeds mine. you can be sure. As far as her having the award, this is true. But her time in the military will be an uncomfortable one since anyone that has been in combat (and some that have not) will never respect her for recieving it, and I'm sure that feeling will be perfectly clear to here every day she spends in active duty. Uhmmm...you must have missed out on all those CIB's awarded during recent conflicts to folks who never heard a shot fired in anger? If you think her fellow soldiers are going to hold her receiving a BS that she didn't ask for (there is a reason they are awarded via "orders") against her, then you must have served with a different breed of soldier from the ones I have been fortunate enough to have served with. The CIB is nothing compared to a BS, so I have no problem with soldiers recieving it if they are in a combat zone. It's the same as a Combat Action Ribbon. If they're in harms way, they should recieve something for it. And if you're trying to tell me that soldiers are going to be nothing but supportive of her, you're high. In a perfect world, they would be. But it's not a perfect world. Most are not as petty as you seem to be. Her best bet is to get out whle she can, and take advantage of her new found fame, because she's going to be nothing but a long running joke as long as she stays in. By the way Brooks, the only reason I've attacked you in this email is in direct response to your attacking me first. I would have been perfectly fine discussing this politely as I have with other posters on this forum. But since you've chosen to come across as a rude "know-nothing" in your reply, I'm happy to treat you as such. Take care. I am amused when one who has such a fragile self-image that they have to resort to trashing the efforts of others then tries to take the "I am noble" route...I am afraid you are a bit late. You have gained nothing by trying to belittle Lynch's efforts, you have presented incorrect statements, and I hope you are going to be able to get over this apparently terrible blow to your self-esteem. PFC Lynch has done nothing to you, so why don't you just let it go? That's the problem with you. I'm not trashing her "efforts". LOL! Like hell you haven't. Her being ambushed became a "traffic accident" in your parlance (making it worse, you even tried to back up that little verbal faux pas, to the point of going after Lord Mountbatten?!?). That is pretty much a trash job in my book. How'd you like it if a WWII vet told you your combat experience was nothing but a training event? I'm simply saying that what "efforts" she did accomplish, are not deserving of the BS. This isn't about me, this isn't about a dreamt up "blow to my self-esteem", this isn't about jealousy, it's about a soldier getting a medal she didn't deserve. And about how people like yourself are so swayed by a somewhat pretty girl that it doesn't matter whether she deserves it or not. You'll support her regardless. What utter bull****. I happen to think that any and all of the folks who went through that ambush, were captured, and acted in the best traditions of the US Army while under captivity may very well equally deserve the BS, at least as much as a staff pogue sitting in Kuwait City for the duration does. But in the end I could really care less WHO the grand media annoints--their recognition does not require me to afford her any greater respect than I have for the other troops, but unlike you it also does not force me to engage in trashing her reputation due to misguided jealousy or animosity. You're like the cop that won't give a speeding ticket to a pretty girl because she smiles at you and winks her eye. What an embarrassment it is that you were ever a soldier. From what I have so far seen of your self-centered views, you'll excuse me if your opinion does not cause me to lose any sleep tonight. And when I awaken, Lynch will still have her BS, the sun will rise, the birds will sing, and all will be right in the world...except for that whining sound coming from your direction. Brooks Brooks snip |
#58
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Subject: PFC Lynch gets a Bronze Star?
From: Cub Driver Date: 7/26/03 3:37 AM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id: Come on! Were you guys ever in the army? You're asking for purity with respect to medals that exists nowhere else. Jessie deserves her Bronze as much as the average GI ever deserved a medal. You're talking like a bunch of flight simmers debating whether they could whup Erich Hartmann's ass, when they've never even taken a plane off the ground. Good on you, Jessie! You're cute as a button and I hope you didn't hurt too much those days when you didn't know whether you were going to live or die. Welcome home, kid, and wear that medal proudly all the days of your life. I'm proud that you wore the uniform, sweetheart, and I'm glad I never had to go through what you did. all the best -- Dan Ford email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9 Oustanding post. The wannabees sure are getting tiresome. Arthur Kramer Visit my WW II B-26 website at: http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer |
#59
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You're comparing apples to oranges. She got into a auto accident.
You are assuming that the Army wants the world to know the truth about how Jessica really got all of those injuries, aren't you? Already, Jessica's sister has asked to be released from her enlistment contract. Do you think that she knows something about what happened to Jessica that the rest of you don't know? How many potential female recruits would walk away from the recruiting office once they learned what really happened to Jessica...saying to themselves that they did NOT want to be the next Jessica Lynch? Think about it, Jessica has not been treated in the military hospitals as a motor vehicle accident victim. She has been treated just like a rape and torture victim. In case you didn't read the latest issue of Newsweek, it has now been reported that Jessica was captured standing upright...hardly possible with two broken legs from a truck wreck.... The truth will come out....and many will not like it.... Jerry Hall |
#60
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I'm proud that you wore the uniform, sweetheart, and I'm glad I never had to go through what you did. all the best -- Dan Ford email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9 Oustanding post. The wannabees sure are getting tiresome. Arthur Kramer Whaaatever...just seems that you guys are looking at short term gain at the expense of long term. If you want to degrade the 'value' of your medals then why should I care?...fill yer boots... -- -Gord. |
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