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#71
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"Chad Irby" wrote
In reality, you'd have to buy a few thousand Patriot batteries, enlist a few hundred thousand people to man them 24/7, and then the bad guys would do something else to kill people. Patriot batteries don't require many people. You either man the fire department, or you don't. Just think if we didn't have fire departments because they were just too expensive. Is losing an economic center cheaper than manning a defense? |
#72
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"tscottme" wrote
How many Star Trek conventions have you attended? None. But I have assists in 4 Mig kills in one afternoon, so I can appreciate a quality Air Defense. |
#73
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"tscottme" wrote
Mark and Kim Smith wrote Question: Your are in charge of the air force in 2001. What would you have done to prevent 9/11 from occuring? He would get in his time machine and travel back before the birth of Muhammed and create a religion that worships afternoon naps. I wouldn't have trusted the FAA to defend the centers of commerce and government. |
#74
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"Gene Storey" wrote in message news:zE1Lb.9465$6l1.4352@okepread03...
"Pete" wrote Really. So what should have been done differently? New York should have AAA and SAM batteries, like most third world countries. There should be no way an airplane can enter New York City at high speed that isn't identified. Any aircraft at the speeds given, at such a low altitude should be splashed before they enter a center of commerce. I would have NYC ringed by Patriot batteries, and anything above 250 knots that isn't on a flight plan should be terminated. Error on the side of those on the ground. Do you remember KAL 007? The Soviets did pretty much exactly what you have in mind - they shot down an airline that was off-route and had entered their airspace. And that wasn't even in a area with several major airports - with the number of flights coming into NY (occasionally with emergencies) each day, are you going to risk shooting down the wrong plane? Eugene Styer |
#75
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"Gene Storey" wrote in message news:hE0Lb.9457$6l1.3782@okepread03... You're off a few years. The Air Defense Command went out of business in 1978 (I was there). Air Defense Command became Aerospace Defense Command in 1968. As a USAF major command, ADC was inactivated in 1979 and control of USAF interceptor units and air surveillance radars and control centers was transferred to TAC. Control of space surveillance assets transferred to SAC, and ADC communications assets transferred to AFCC. ADC was inactivated at that time only as a major USAF command, Aerospace Defense Command continued to function as a US specified command. When the F-106 was retired, there was no priority to continental air defense. It basically became an FAA air traffic control system. Downsizing of continental air defense began long before the retirement of the F-106. In fact, it began not long after the introduction of the F-106. Very little of that air defense system became part of the FAA. The NOTIP project demonstrated that SAGE wasn't a very good system for ATC. Some radar sites were joint-use, that was about it. |
#76
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"Mike Marron" wrote in message ... The original poster asked a reasonable question and I was hoping that someone such as yourself on active duty would've provided a reasonable answer by now. The original poster was a mindless troll. His question, far from reasonable, cannot be answered as it assumes something to be true that is not. Since I am not in the military I can only speculate but it's obvious that the USAF dropped the ball on 9/11 BIG time! How so? Don't get me wrong, I realize that after the wall came down in 1989 the USAF didn't have fighters sitting at the ready all over the U.S. pre-armed with missiles and pilots just waiting to shoot down domestic airliners that have been hijacked by "Islamic ****s" ($1 to Juvat). Nor did the USAF have fighters sitting at the ready all over the U.S. pre-armed with missiles and pilots just waiting to shoot down domestic airliners before the wall was opened in 1989. Having said that, to this day I too am confounded by the apparent ineptness of the USAF (and especially the American intelligence community) both of whom utterly failed to prevent the apocalyptic death and destruction of 9/11. What was the USAF failure with regard to 9/11? |
#77
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"Gene Storey" wrote in message news:2y1Lb.9463$6l1.3157@okepread03... Anyone with D model time, is long retired, or dead. The last B-52Ds were retired in 1983. It wouldn't surprise me to find a few colonels or generals or some senior NCOs still on active duty with B-52D experience. |
#78
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"Gene Storey" wrote in message news:zE1Lb.9465$6l1.4352@okepread03... New York should have AAA and SAM batteries, like most third world countries. It did. The Skysweeper AAA batteries were phased out in the fifties with the introduction of Nike SAM batteries, which lasted until 1974. There should be no way an airplane can enter New York City at high speed that isn't identified. Any aircraft at the speeds given, at such a low altitude should be splashed before they enter a center of commerce. What about aircraft approaching New York from points within the US? I would have NYC ringed by Patriot batteries, and anything above 250 knots that isn't on a flight plan should be terminated. Well, then, it's good that you're not in charge of air defense. Error on the side of those on the ground. Because the lives of those on the ground are more valuable than the lives of those in the airplane? |
#79
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Buzzer wrote:
Mike Marron wrote: AFAIK, nobody knew what was about to happen back on Sept. 11, 2001, but that's the whole point! “The Man Who Knew” http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../synopsis.html Fascinating stuff, thanks for the link. I recall a watching a TV interview featuring Murray Weiss, author of the book, "The Man Who Warned America: The Life and Death of John O'Neill, the FBI's Embattled Counterterror Warrior." I will definitely read THIS book! Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. -- Albert Einstein |
#80
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Dweezil Dwarftosser wrote:
B2431 wrote: Mike Marron wrote: Of course you're correct. Let's disregard the manner in which the question was asked (the original poster asked, "Why was the USAF stood down on 9/11?") and simply ask instead something along the lines of; "Why was the USAF unable to prevent 9/11?" The orignal poster has no idea of what standing down means. That's true. While much of my service was overseas, the only time I can recall a one-day "stand down" was in 1969, during a well-organized civilian "Moratorium Against the (VN) War" - and it only applied to TAC. (Evidently, they were concerned that the demonstration would be considerably larger than it actually was...) I agreed that the original poster either A) had no idea what "standing down" means, or B) was simply trolling. Hence, my suggestion above to restate the question so as to have a more meaningful and productive discussion as opposed to the usual trolling and massive amounts of wasted bandwidth mudslinging. Your suggestion that the USAF was somehow at fault for 9/11 is offensive and it shows you have no idea what the USAF's job is. Agreed. After spending the first 20 years of my life on ADC bases I grew accustomed to the sound of afterburners blasting off all day and night and the even louder concussions of sonic booms. As a young kid, I rode in those dark blue Air Force panel trucks on the flightline with Dad and his RO's carrying their chutes, kneeboards and helmet bags. I sat in the tower and listened to his radio conversations and watched until my neck was sore as my ol' man roared down the runway at Kingsley Field and pulled straight up 'till he was clean out of sight. Hell, I've even drank beer with him and his pilot buds and a few of the wise old maintenance types whom he fondly referred to as "Zebras." In other words, I have a pretty damn good idea of what the USAF's job is and to imply otherwise is offensive not only to me, but also the USAF. The purpose of this NG is to discuss all-things-military aviation, and that is all I am attempting to do. Anyone who knows me, or either of my two older brothers (not to mention my younger sister and my Mother, of course!) knows just how much we honor and respect the military and especially the USAF. If my remarks concerning 9/11 happen to offend you, I sincerely apologize. However, I remain convinced that the USAF was at least partly to blame for 9/11. Not unlike pre-Dec 7, 1941, the pre-Sept. 11, 2001 USAF (USAAF in '41) had become complacent and both the Japs AND those Islamic ****s ($1 to Juvat) simply caught us all napping on the job, so to speak. Like it or not, the horrific results of both surprise attacks at Pearl Harbor and NYC/Washington DC speak for themselves. But that's just my opinion, you're entitled to yours, of course. Nice day! |
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