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How are joysticks 'powered' in gliders?
I note that some gliders are controlle with a joystick which makes me curious as to how the control surfaces are powered. Assuming these are useable by people who lack the forearms of a truck driver, how are they powered? Do these systems use electric servos with a battery recharged on the ground? Do they use vaccumm assist from a venturi? Just asking? -- FF |
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wrote in message oups.com... I note that some gliders are controlle with a joystick which makes me curious as to how the control surfaces are powered. Assuming these are useable by people who lack the forearms of a truck driver, how are they powered? Do these systems use electric servos with a battery recharged on the ground? Do they use vaccumm assist from a venturi? Just asking? -- FF You really need to visit the nearest gliderport and take a ride. Assuming you are in the USA, check www.ssa.org and click the button "Where to fly" to find the nearest location. One of the great beauties of gliders is their simplicity. Usually, the only "power" in the glider is a small battery to power the radio and a few instruments. Everything else is powered by the pilot. The control forces in modern gliders are small enough that pilots can fly with their finger tips most of the time. If you see a glider pilot with "truck driver forearms", it's from assembling the glider, not flying it. Bill Daniels |
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Bill Daniels wrote: .... You really need to visit the nearest gliderport and take a ride. Assuming you are in the USA, check www.ssa.org and click the button "Where to fly" to find the nearest location. Uh, I think you're right. I belong to a local flying club, one of our members is a gliding enthusiast who flys out of another club in Pensylvania. I suspect I could go with her up there pretty much any weekend. -- FF |
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In one of Dennis Wright's editorials he wrote about several
ideas to help promote soaring. On the list were some things already being done (CAP, EAA young eagles getting a new name, etc.) One thing in the list I found very interesting, however, was the idea of SSA membership and club "co-membership." So if you were an SSA member, or maybe if you were a club member somewhere, you would be accepted into other club without paying an entry fee, etc. I discussed this with some clubs and commercial operators, and they weren't too keen on the no application fee and no dues idea. BUT, we came up with the idea that an SSA member could walk into any club or commercial operator, and any application fees or doubling of charges, etc, would be waived for one day a year. Call it the "member for a day" program. Kind of like "king for a day." Bring your Soaring magazine confirming you are an SSA member. Walk in to any club and show it, and you'll be treated like a member that day. No initiation fees, etc. Go fly with an instructor, or another club pilot. Details of wanting to fly one's own glider there using the club for tows, or details of wanting to fly club equipment solo, would be arranged seperately. I think this would realy help the walk-in stuff. No mystery, no hidden charges, no having to "investigate" what is offered. Show up at the door and get treated like a part of the club. Welcome! I also think this might cross-pollenate more for current glider pilots. Haven't you always wanted to go fly just one day maybe at some gliderport you know nothing about? A little intimidated about having to face fees and applications? Wouldn't it be nice to know you can be treated like a member for a day? I'm sure there are plenty of clubs already doing this, but I'd love to see this as a blanket "Welcome!" assurance from SSA. Country clubs and sailing clubs often honor memberships at other clubs for short-term visitors. Just climb aboard the boat and we'll go sail together, and you gotta pay for your steak at the end like all the other members. If it's just once a year, I can't see this idea cutting into dues or initiation fees much. Anyway, what do you all think? Wouldn't it be fun to walk in to any club with your Soaring magazine and say "I'd like to be a member for a day?" In article . com, wrote: Bill Daniels wrote: ... You really need to visit the nearest gliderport and take a ride. Assuming you are in the USA, check www.ssa.org and click the button "Where to fly" to find the nearest location. Uh, I think you're right. I belong to a local flying club, one of our members is a gliding enthusiast who flys out of another club in Pensylvania. I suspect I could go with her up there pretty much any weekend. -- FF -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd |
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Mark... I'll bite..
1) why bring the SSA Mag... bring your SSA Card.. easier to carry 2) Some "clubs" are SSA Charter Clubs, and all members, visiting members must be SSA Members to be covered under the SSA Group insurance. 3) Club Charters or By-laws may need to be changed to reflect a membership category for what you propose to meet the Group Insurance requirements. Our bylaws already recognize other SSA Members as visiting members, but they still pay the "visiting member fee". Come on, for SSA Visitors it's only $10 per day for the first 3 days.. and then you are good to go for a month. Same thing we charge our own membership. And for $25 you get a 2K tow in your glider, or check out and rent the clubs 2-33 / 1-26. We don't have a $1000 "join up fee". Those high fees can keep new (non-pilots) from joining and taking lessons, and it's the students that keep the club solvent. BT "Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:42222b96$1@darkstar... In one of Dennis Wright's editorials he wrote about several ideas to help promote soaring. On the list were some things already being done (CAP, EAA young eagles getting a new name, etc.) One thing in the list I found very interesting, however, was the idea of SSA membership and club "co-membership." So if you were an SSA member, or maybe if you were a club member somewhere, you would be accepted into other club without paying an entry fee, etc. I discussed this with some clubs and commercial operators, and they weren't too keen on the no application fee and no dues idea. BUT, we came up with the idea that an SSA member could walk into any club or commercial operator, and any application fees or doubling of charges, etc, would be waived for one day a year. Call it the "member for a day" program. Kind of like "king for a day." Bring your Soaring magazine confirming you are an SSA member. Walk in to any club and show it, and you'll be treated like a member that day. No initiation fees, etc. Go fly with an instructor, or another club pilot. Details of wanting to fly one's own glider there using the club for tows, or details of wanting to fly club equipment solo, would be arranged seperately. I think this would realy help the walk-in stuff. No mystery, no hidden charges, no having to "investigate" what is offered. Show up at the door and get treated like a part of the club. Welcome! I also think this might cross-pollenate more for current glider pilots. Haven't you always wanted to go fly just one day maybe at some gliderport you know nothing about? A little intimidated about having to face fees and applications? Wouldn't it be nice to know you can be treated like a member for a day? I'm sure there are plenty of clubs already doing this, but I'd love to see this as a blanket "Welcome!" assurance from SSA. Country clubs and sailing clubs often honor memberships at other clubs for short-term visitors. Just climb aboard the boat and we'll go sail together, and you gotta pay for your steak at the end like all the other members. If it's just once a year, I can't see this idea cutting into dues or initiation fees much. Anyway, what do you all think? Wouldn't it be fun to walk in to any club with your Soaring magazine and say "I'd like to be a member for a day?" In article . com, wrote: Bill Daniels wrote: ... You really need to visit the nearest gliderport and take a ride. Assuming you are in the USA, check www.ssa.org and click the button "Where to fly" to find the nearest location. Uh, I think you're right. I belong to a local flying club, one of our members is a gliding enthusiast who flys out of another club in Pensylvania. I suspect I could go with her up there pretty much any weekend. -- FF -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd |
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In article I8wUd.27783$Tt.10445@fed1read05,
BTIZ wrote: Mark... I'll bite.. 1) why bring the SSA Mag... bring your SSA Card.. easier to carry Yes. Either one should be accepted. I mention the magazine just because I know where it is in my house, but I probably couldn't find my SSA card 2) Some "clubs" are SSA Charter Clubs, and all members, visiting members must be SSA Members to be covered under the SSA Group insurance. Yes, this is common already. So that's nice, the insurance issue is probably ok. 3) Club Charters or By-laws may need to be changed to reflect a membership category for what you propose to meet the Group Insurance requirements. Our bylaws already recognize other SSA Members as visiting members, but they still pay the "visiting member fee". I'm advocating waiving this fee for a visitor once each year. Come on, for SSA Visitors it's only $10 per day for the first 3 days.. You know that, and now I know that. Guess how many potential visitors don't know that? One of the reasons the $50 "Be a pilot" program works (sort of) is because everybody knows the price, without doing a lot of sophisticated investigating. and then you are good to go for a month. Same thing we charge our own membership. And for $25 you get a 2K tow in your glider, or check out and rent the clubs 2-33 / 1-26. This is great. So you waive the "visiting member fee" for one day and after the new guy has made it in the door and has had a nice day you can explain all of this to him. We don't have a $1000 "join up fee". Those high fees can keep new (non-pilots) from joining and taking lessons, and it's the students that keep the club solvent. I think it goes beyond high fees. I recall a nearby commercial operator website that had conflicting visitor "membership fees" for daily, monthly and yearly membership. I called but got a confusing response. If I had known for sure it was $0 for the first day I walked in the door, I would have flown there. Instead I didn't visit for 3 years. It wasn't the price, it was the uncertainty and the amount of effort I needed to investigate stuff that turned me off. Offer a $0 "member for a day" opportunity, across the board, at all SSA participating FBOs and clubs. Yeah, maybe the idea is mostly psychological, but isn't that important? Ease the minds of potential customers? Get 'em in the door once? Isn't that the very hardest part of learning to fly, one's first step into an FBO or club and not knowing what to expect? If AOPA can do it with the "Be a Pilot" $50 thing, we should be able to echo this. Heck, offer both, a "member for a day" idea, AND a $50 intro flight. List the participating clubs/FBOs on the SSA site, and stick it in the magazine. Because January seems to be a great month for pilot starts, maybe dedicate the whole Jan issue to "member for a day" and "be a pilot" and "newbies." Makes a great Christmas stocking stuffer! A Soaring subscription and a gift certificate, what could be better? BT "Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:42222b96$1@darkstar... In one of Dennis Wright's editorials he wrote about several ideas to help promote soaring. On the list were some things already being done (CAP, EAA young eagles getting a new name, etc.) One thing in the list I found very interesting, however, was the idea of SSA membership and club "co-membership." So if you were an SSA member, or maybe if you were a club member somewhere, you would be accepted into other club without paying an entry fee, etc. I discussed this with some clubs and commercial operators, and they weren't too keen on the no application fee and no dues idea. BUT, we came up with the idea that an SSA member could walk into any club or commercial operator, and any application fees or doubling of charges, etc, would be waived for one day a year. Call it the "member for a day" program. Kind of like "king for a day." Bring your Soaring magazine confirming you are an SSA member. Walk in to any club and show it, and you'll be treated like a member that day. No initiation fees, etc. Go fly with an instructor, or another club pilot. Details of wanting to fly one's own glider there using the club for tows, or details of wanting to fly club equipment solo, would be arranged seperately. I think this would realy help the walk-in stuff. No mystery, no hidden charges, no having to "investigate" what is offered. Show up at the door and get treated like a part of the club. Welcome! I also think this might cross-pollenate more for current glider pilots. Haven't you always wanted to go fly just one day maybe at some gliderport you know nothing about? A little intimidated about having to face fees and applications? Wouldn't it be nice to know you can be treated like a member for a day? I'm sure there are plenty of clubs already doing this, but I'd love to see this as a blanket "Welcome!" assurance from SSA. Country clubs and sailing clubs often honor memberships at other clubs for short-term visitors. Just climb aboard the boat and we'll go sail together, and you gotta pay for your steak at the end like all the other members. If it's just once a year, I can't see this idea cutting into dues or initiation fees much. Anyway, what do you all think? Wouldn't it be fun to walk in to any club with your Soaring magazine and say "I'd like to be a member for a day?" In article . com, wrote: Bill Daniels wrote: ... You really need to visit the nearest gliderport and take a ride. Assuming you are in the USA, check www.ssa.org and click the button "Where to fly" to find the nearest location. Uh, I think you're right. I belong to a local flying club, one of our members is a gliding enthusiast who flys out of another club in Pensylvania. I suspect I could go with her up there pretty much any weekend. -- FF -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd |
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"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message news:42222b96$1@darkstar... In one of Dennis Wright's editorials he wrote about several ideas to help promote soaring. On the list were some things already being done (CAP, EAA young eagles getting a new name, etc.) One thing in the list I found very interesting, however, was the idea of SSA membership and club "co-membership." So if you were an SSA member, or maybe if you were a club member somewhere, you would be accepted into other club without paying an entry fee, etc. I discussed this with some clubs and commercial operators, and they weren't too keen on the no application fee and no dues idea. Let's not include the commercial operators in this, since you are mixing apples and oranges, to extent. Clubs are by definition quite different and have to operate under different constraints WRT FAA, SSA, IRS and insurance. BUT, we came up with the idea that an SSA member could walk into any club or commercial operator, and any application fees or doubling of charges, etc, would be waived for one day a year. Clubs generally have limited instructor staff and glider assets. Walking on is fine if there's no real expection other than an expression of your interest, but gaining access to gliders or the already overworked volunteer instructor could be tenuous unless you were willing to wait around until 5pm or so. You might get to fly with another member, though I would be loath to send an unknown instructor off with a relatively low time member. Call it the "member for a day" program. Kind of like "king for a day." Bring your Soaring magazine confirming you are an SSA member. Walk in to any club and show it, and you'll be treated like a member that day. No initiation fees, etc. Go fly with an instructor, or another club pilot. Put your SSA membership card in your wallet, next to your pilot's license (and photo ID). Bring your logbook also. The problem is that at many clubs, you might get treated like the problem of the day unless you've arranged ahead of time for a visit. That may give the wrong impression entirely. Details of wanting to fly one's own glider there using the club for tows, or details of wanting to fly club equipment solo, would be arranged seperately. We allow visiting pilots with their own gliders 6 tows per year with a $5/surcharge. After that, the rates go up. It's restricted since pilots have previously abused this, being inactive members of other local clubs and using our facilities regularly at less cost than members. They fly at the pleasure of the members. Poor airmanship will end these privileges, but so will abuse. I think this would realy help the walk-in stuff. No mystery, no hidden charges, no having to "investigate" what is offered. Show up at the door and get treated like a part of the club. Welcome! See above. The SSA club survery would seem to indicate that many clubs cannot meet this expectation due to lack of fleet and instructors. Our club does carry glider and tow for hire insurance, but we still have to schedule ahead for scenic flights and mini-courses. Walk on traffic seldom can fly on a given day. The gliders are there for the membership and are generally in full use. It is an unreasonable expectation to walk on and fly at most clubs. Even our members have no expectation of this, but can check the schedule online or by phone for the most current information. I also think this might cross-pollenate more for current glider pilots. Haven't you always wanted to go fly just one day maybe at some gliderport you know nothing about? A little intimidated about having to face fees and applications? Wouldn't it be nice to know you can be treated like a member for a day? Fees are the least of the problem actually. Most clubs by-laws are a blend of the constraints mentioned above. However, we'd be glad to put you on the mower or hand you a paint brush, so you can really get the 'feel' for club membership;^) I'm sure there are plenty of clubs already doing this, but I'd love to see this as a blanket "Welcome!" assurance from SSA. Country clubs and sailing clubs often honor memberships at other clubs for short-term visitors. Just climb aboard the boat and we'll go sail together, and you gotta pay for your steak at the end like all the other members. Actually, you probably pay on another member's account in these cases, though you may not realize it. There are IRS gross receipts limitations if you are incorporated as a 501c(7) entity. That's gross receipts, not income after expenses, and the distinction is important. You attend most golf and country clubs as a 'guest' of a member, not as a walk-on. Indeed, you can't play or eat without an invitation. Your charges go on their account for this very reason. If it's just once a year, I can't see this idea cutting into dues or initiation fees much. Assuming you are willing to assume the member responsibilities also. Some clubs have $1000 to $3000 deductibles. Generally renter insurance does not apply to members, even as member of the day. Unless the club carries glider for hire insurance, you can't rent. Anyway, what do you all think? Wouldn't it be fun to walk in to any club with your Soaring magazine and say "I'd like to be a member for a day?" There may be some clubs with active reciprocal memberships and daily memberships. However, if the idea is for clubs to gain new members from the exiting SSA population that are not club members, giving a good first impression would be much easier with some advanced warning. With that courtesy, most clubs are probably quite welcoming. How many clubs have you actually visited? What makes you think there are hidden costs? I think it may be easier to think of most clubs as a picnic rather than a buffet. As such, it's a pot-luck endeavor. What do you bring to the table? If it's your interest, then call ahead and get an invite. It's simple common courtesy and will demystifye the process. Doug Easton, SSA director-at-large, is in the midst of updating the Where To Fly website info and adding some tools. Many of the links, contact e-mails, phone numbers, etc, were broken. This is a large task and will take him some more time to complete. It will get rid of the deadwood too. This will make clubs and FBOs easier to find and contact. Frank Whiteley In article . com, wrote: Bill Daniels wrote: ... You really need to visit the nearest gliderport and take a ride. Assuming you are in the USA, check www.ssa.org and click the button "Where to fly" to find the nearest location. Uh, I think you're right. I belong to a local flying club, one of our members is a gliding enthusiast who flys out of another club in Pensylvania. I suspect I could go with her up there pretty much any weekend. -- FF -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd |
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My single experience as a UK pilot visiting the States backs up Frank's
point. F.L. Whiteley wrote: ... giving a good first impression would be much easier with some advanced warning. With that courtesy, most clubs are probably quite welcoming. How many clubs have you actually visited? What makes you think there are hidden costs? I think it may be easier to think of most clubs as a picnic rather than a buffet. As such, it's a pot-luck endeavor. What do you bring to the table? If it's your interest, then call ahead and get an invite. It's simple common courtesy and will demystifye the process. I was about on a few weeks post-solo when I visited Houston on business and, obviously, had to fly if I could. I emailed the Soaring Club of Houston explaining that I had all Sunday free and would love to spend the day at the club. Result: As the CFI of the day would be driving nearly past my hotel, he and his wife picked me up and drove me to the airfield. The UK tradition is that if you're a member you have to help with operations, so I retrieved gliders and hooked up cables, as well as standing in the shade talking with club members. I'd remembered my logbook, so my experience could be checked out, and as gliders became available I was given three dual flights (I've no idea if I could have flown solo as a temporary student pilot, though I did fancy the I-26 as I'd just qualified for my home club's K8, but it wouldn't have been sensible to let such a new pilot loose on a new site in previously unexperienced conditions) in types I hadn't flown before. Essentially, for the day I became part of the SCH "family" - thanks Barry et al, I had a great time. It's a real shame that since 9/11 I can't do this again. If other US clubs are like this (and the US pilots I've spoken to in the UK suggest they might be) then go visit, Mark. Glider pilots seem to make up an extended world-wide family (which explains the sniping arguments on r.a.s.) and welcome distant relations for a visit. But let them know you're coming - if you're busy doing something else, even the most beloved aunt can make your heart sink if she turns up without warning .... |
#9
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In article ,
F.L. Whiteley wrote: Let's not include the commercial operators in this, since you are mixing apples and oranges, to extent. Yes, agreed. You might get to fly with another member, though I would be loath to send an unknown instructor off with a relatively low time member. Oh man, I've done this and had some of the best laughs of my life. I tried really hard one time to hold back but we hit so hard on landing I just couldn't help it. I've stopped telling anyone I'm an instructor. They get all WEIRD and nervous on ya... Maybe it's the whoopie cushion and the floopy shoes... Put your SSA membership card in your wallet, next to your pilot's license (and photo ID). Bring your logbook also. The problem is that at many clubs, you might get treated like the problem of the day unless you've arranged ahead of time for a visit. That may give the wrong impression entirely. "Problem of the Day." Oh man, LMAO. I'm having a hard time breathing here. I dunno about this wallet idea tho. If I put in every card I own, it'd bust open. Good thing there's no money in it. It is an unreasonable expectation to walk on and fly at most clubs. Hey hey now, I never said they should expect to be treated BETTER than a member. If members are treated to a work party walkin in the door, then give visiting members that too! The "be a pilot" idea for $50 gets you a takeoff and immediate landing at expensive airplane FBOs, and an hour flight at others. Likewise, my "member for a day" idea gets flowers and a free burger at some places, and a dirty, paint stained shirt and a broom (inscribed "member for a day") at other gliderports (gotta stop laughing at my own jokes long enough to type here). Even our members have no expectation of this, but can check the schedule online or by phone for the most current information. I still don't know why clubs keep their schedules "secret" with all kinda passwords and stuff. Put out a guest password that can modify, but can only looksie. Schedulemaster and flightschedulepro allow this. What the heck is the big freekin' secret? be proud of your schedule! Fees are the least of the problem actually. Most clubs by-laws are a blend of the constraints mentioned above. However, we'd be glad to put you on the mower or hand you a paint brush, so you can really get the 'feel' for club membership;^) ROFLMAO! Ya know what, for me personally, this would be something I would actually love. Commin' out to put markings on the runway, wax a glider, dust the clubhouse, flip the burgers, etc. On a recent visit to a club I was hangin out MIGHTY close to the BBQ. I think they thought I was there 'cause I was hungry. NOT SO. I wanted to get some spatula time in my logbook. Good thing they didn't let me. They call me "the torch" in some circles.... You attend most golf and country clubs as a 'guest' of a member, not as a walk-on. Indeed, you can't play or eat without an invitation. Your charges go on their account for this very reason. Hmmm...this idea is morphing into a "member buddy" idea. Lemme roll that one around in the noggin. Assuming you are willing to assume the member responsibilities also. Some clubs have $1000 to $3000 deductibles. Generally renter insurance does not apply to members, even as member of the day. Unless the club carries glider for hire insurance, you can't rent. There may be some clubs with active reciprocal memberships and daily memberships. However, if the idea is for clubs to gain new members from the exiting SSA population that are not club members, giving a good first impression would be much easier with some advanced warning. With that courtesy, most clubs are probably quite welcoming. This isn't so much about bad greetings by clubs, which I've really never gotten. It's about the percieved "I dunno, what's it like over there" that I hear from a lot of SSA members who don't bonk around to other clubs much. I just want to see a BUNCH more "invitations" to cross-swap, and this was one (maybe kinda lame) idea. How many clubs have you actually visited? Maybe a dozen. Mixed bag indeed. I have had the absolute best time just hangar flying tho. I dunno if it's just me, but I'm pretty much bored with flying alone, and half the time I'd prefer to just sit there, eat a tasty burger, and tell lies anyway. As an instructor, if I tried to go flying WITHOUT a passenger I'd get a darned dirty look anyway, so I have to sneak in on weekdays anyway... What makes you think there are hidden costs? Because I didn't see a big board with all the prices and the option to "supersize" it :P C'mon, at every club I've been to in my life, the very WORST and LEAST accessible amount of info is the prices. Ask most of the guys in your own club how much an aero retrieve costs :PPPP Hahaha... I think it may be easier to think of most clubs as a picnic rather than a buffet. As such, it's a pot-luck endeavor. What do you bring to the table? If it's your interest, then call ahead and get an invite. It's simple common courtesy and will demystifye the process. I'm tellin' ya, man, you are definitely on the money. Even with a prior phone call, it IS a pot-luck. Doug Easton, SSA director-at-large, is in the midst of updating the Where To Fly website info and adding some tools. Many of the links, contact e-mails, phone numbers, etc, were broken. This is a large task and will take him some more time to complete. It will get rid of the deadwood too. This will make clubs and FBOs easier to find and contact. Yes. Important stuff. Oh, and at least one club I know of needs to get an answering machine for their club phone! You know who you are!!!! ;O Frank Whiteley In article . com, wrote: Bill Daniels wrote: ... You really need to visit the nearest gliderport and take a ride. Assuming you are in the USA, check www.ssa.org and click the button "Where to fly" to find the nearest location. Uh, I think you're right. I belong to a local flying club, one of our members is a gliding enthusiast who flys out of another club in Pensylvania. I suspect I could go with her up there pretty much any weekend. -- FF -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd -- ------------+ Mark J. Boyd |
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