A Poll on your weight and balance

On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 11:55:17 AM UTC-7, JS wrote:

Going by just tail weight, perhaps Martin Heide has friends who are chiropractors.


I suspect Martin just inherited this design feature. My 28 runs about 60lb on the tail, ballasted and with me in the cockpit. I have to lift a lot more than that to put the tail dolly on. I have no record of the tail weight for that condition but it calculates to approx 90lb.

Attempting to answer the OP's question - In specified weighing attitude, no ballast and no pilot, tail 67lb. Same with pilot and chute in cockpit, tail 37.5lb.

As others have pointed out, the conditions for measuring tail weight have a huge influence on the result. No data will be of any value unless the conditions are specified.

Andy (GY)

On Dec 6, 6:19*am, Andy wrote:
On Wednesday, December 5, 2012 11:55:17 AM UTC-7, JS wrote:
Going by just tail weight, perhaps Martin Heide has friends who are chiropractors.

I suspect Martin just inherited this design feature. *My 28 runs about 60lb on the tail, ballasted and with me in the cockpit. *I have to lift a lot more than that to put the tail dolly on. *I have no record of the tail weight for that condition but it calculates to approx 90lb.

Attempting to answer the OP's question *- In specified weighing attitude, no ballast and no pilot, *tail 67lb. *Same with pilot and chute in cockpit, tail 37.5lb.

As others have pointed out, the conditions for measuring tail weight have a huge influence on the result. *No data will be of any value unless the conditions are specified.

Andy (GY)

Janus C - 64 lbs
Speed Astir II - 90 lbs

ASW-19B = 70 lbs
LS8-18 = 67 lbs

Both values without pilot or chute, and both done using manufacturer's specified tail position.

-John

DG-1000 109 lbs without tail weights and empty cockpits

THANKS ALL for your helpful info.
I was simply trying to determine if my glider had a typical tail wheel
weight.
The first time I tried to lift the tail to install a dolly I was
dismayed to discover
how heavy it is. All I had to compare it with is the club fleet of
three SGS machines which all
have very light tail weights. It seems as if the older gliders
(Cherokee, 1-26, 1-34) are
almost balanced on the wheel whereas the glass ships are quite heavy.
Does this make them any trickier to land? I realize the flying
balance
is most likely different from wheel balance i.e CG and wheel are not
co-located.
The average of the single place tail weights without pilot aboard is
66 lbs. and mine
is 72 lbs. so I am right in the ballpark.
Has anyone made a simple lever-lifted dolly arrangement? Or do you
risk your back with
the poor lifting position that the tail boom presents?

I just risk my back. The Speed Astir 'Dolly' is just a post on a
wheel. That's nice, because you can't accidentally take off with it
on, but lifting that 90 lb tail and trying to fit the post into the
hole in the underside of the fuselage can be challenging.
The Janus uses a conventional dolly and has only 64 lbs on the
tailwheel. Piece of cake.
BTW, on the subject of weight and balance, just for your own knowledge
you might want to run the numbers with your tail dolly ON. In the
case of the Janus, the glider remains well within CG limits unless it
is being flown solo by a person that is lighter than me, or any of my
partners.

On Dec 7, 1:32*pm, soartech wrote:
THANKS ALL for your helpful info.
I was simply trying to determine if my glider had a typical tail wheel
weight.
The first time I tried to lift the tail to install a dolly I was
dismayed to discover
how heavy it is. All I had to compare it with is the club fleet of
three SGS machines which all
have very light tail weights. It seems as if the older gliders
(Cherokee, 1-26, 1-34) are
almost balanced on the wheel whereas the glass ships are quite heavy.
Does this make them any trickier to land? *I realize the flying
balance
is most likely different from wheel balance i.e CG and wheel are not
co-located.
The average of the single place tail weights without pilot aboard is
66 lbs. and mine
is 72 lbs. so I am right in the ballpark.
Has anyone made a simple lever-lifted dolly arrangement? Or do you
risk your back with
the poor lifting position that the tail boom presents?

On Friday, December 7, 2012 4:32:41 PM UTC-5, soartech wrote:
Has anyone made a simple lever-lifted dolly arrangement?

Of course:
http://www.cobratrailer.com/catalog/...roducts_id=144

On Fri, 7 Dec 2012 13:32:41 -0800 (PST), soartech
wrote:
.... text deleted
Has anyone made a simple lever-lifted dolly arrangement? Or do you
risk your back with
the poor lifting position that the tail boom presents?

I'd recommend Mark Mocho's combination tow dolly with integrated lift
bar.
http://www.mmfabrication.com/towbars.htm

A very satisfied user.

Bob

On Friday, December 7, 2012 2:32:41 PM UTC-7, soartech wrote:
THANKS ALL for your helpful info.

I was simply trying to determine if my glider had a typical tail wheel

weight.

The first time I tried to lift the tail to install a dolly I was

dismayed to discover

how heavy it is. All I had to compare it with is the club fleet of

three SGS machines which all

have very light tail weights. It seems as if the older gliders

(Cherokee, 1-26, 1-34) are

almost balanced on the wheel whereas the glass ships are quite heavy.

Does this make them any trickier to land? I realize the flying

balance

is most likely different from wheel balance i.e CG and wheel are not

co-located.

The average of the single place tail weights without pilot aboard is

66 lbs. and mine

is 72 lbs. so I am right in the ballpark.

Has anyone made a simple lever-lifted dolly arrangement? Or do you

risk your back with

the poor lifting position that the tail boom presents?

I agree with Bob's comment about Mark Mocho's tow bar and tail boom lifter. It works very well and there are at least 30 or 40 satisfied users at Moriarty and there are many other users around the US! His website is: www.mmfabrication.com

On Friday, December 7, 2012 4:32:41 PM UTC-5, soartech wrote:
THANKS ALL for your helpful info.

I was simply trying to determine if my glider had a typical tail wheel

weight.

The first time I tried to lift the tail to install a dolly I was

dismayed to discover

how heavy it is. All I had to compare it with is the club fleet of

three SGS machines which all

have very light tail weights. It seems as if the older gliders

(Cherokee, 1-26, 1-34) are

almost balanced on the wheel whereas the glass ships are quite heavy.

Does this make them any trickier to land? I realize the flying

balance

is most likely different from wheel balance i.e CG and wheel are not

co-located.

The average of the single place tail weights without pilot aboard is

66 lbs. and mine

is 72 lbs. so I am right in the ballpark.

Has anyone made a simple lever-lifted dolly arrangement? Or do you

risk your back with

the poor lifting position that the tail boom presents?

As weighed when I took delivery of my plane the tail wheel had 71 lbs on it.
I added 6 lbs of ballast back there. When I'm in the plane the CG is about
7.5 inches behind the main wheel. Of course all this is with the plane
leveled; since the plane normally sits tail down more weight shifts aft.
The position of the CG is normal for these kind of tail dragger planes.
Schweitzers (other than the 1-35) and typical glass trainers (K21 or G103)
are nose draggers when occupied.

What I do to put on or take off the tail dolly is to straddle the tail boom
facing aft. After I pick up the boom I cross my ankles under the boom so
I easily hold it up while messing with the dolly.

-- Matt
-- Matt