For Keith Willshaw...

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
The problem you run into is that the stuff you claim happened didn't. you
really should seek professional help.

Really?? Ad Hominem attacks are not a good alternative to research.

Perhaps if you did some research you wouldn't leave yourself wide open for
ad hom attack you loon.

Do you remember Journalist Leib who met with Cordell Hull and received
transcripts of Japanase naval dispaches revealing Pearl Harbor attack?

No, he CLAIMED to have met him and received that info, nobody else was
present and he only ever made that claim after Hull was safely dead, a sane
person would suggest that he was making it up.

If you believe Liebs crap, I've got a great story to tell you about the orgy
I recently had with 14 supermodels, but I have to wait till they have all
passed on before I can tell it.


Now as I said before he (Leib) contacted immediately his personal friend
and UP
Washington chief Wilson and told him the whole story,minus the identity of
his
source.(Cordell Hull).

So he went and told someone "I have a big story, but I can't tell you the
source - print it"

and his story wasn't accurate was it?


But Wilson found the story ludicrous and refused to run it.
But Leib managed to persuade his other friend,UP cable editor Harry
Frantz,to
transmit it on foreign cable.
So,Leib's story,transmitted on foreign cable,created a front page banner
Headline
in the Sunday,Nov.30,Honolulu Advertiser:
"JAPANASE MAY STRIKE OVER WEEKEND".
The journey of this news started in Cordell Hull's office and ended in the
front page of an Hawaian paper.

and was not accurate, he made it up.

The Japanese didn't strike that weekend, did they?



Since you are apparently a big fan of reality and truth,you might want to
visit
your local library check out newspaper.

But Liebs story was wrong, every day loons predict things that don't happen.

It also begs the question why Kimmel didn't take a war warning seriously,
when the local paper was running such stories.

Do try to deal with reality.

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Not backpedalling, you are a loon and your sources crap.

Yeah right.

So a Peruvian minister and a conquered people (Korean "underground")
together should have caused the USA to go to war?

Obviously FDR administration did not want to go to war but
Peruvians,Koreans,Dutch etc, all were setting traps for FDR to force him
to
enter war.
I think something wrong in this picture,but I could not figure out what?
Any help appreciated.

You have so far ignored all the help you have been given, work it out
yourself.


would support France if it was invaded by
the German Army") - gee he wouldn't have any reason to try to make
himself
good at the expense of the US and UK would he?

1,929 classified documents including secret correspondence between
Franklin
D. Roosevelt and Winston Churchill.

The secret corrospondence that according to declassified official
documents
never existed.

I note you avoid the point, he has already been shown to be a Nazi spy and a
liar - why trust him now?



Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to
dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let
reality get in your way.

IJN records only show that they were under orders to maintain radio
silence but
nothing about if these orders were followed all the times.

Hard to do otherwise when the radio is dismantled.

Captain Ranneft,Dutch Naval Attache visited ONI twice just prior to
attack,
first on
Dec.2 then on Dec.6.
On his first visit Japanase Task force was in some spot midway between
Japan
and Hawai.
On his last visit Task Force was 300-400 miles NW of Hawaii.
So,without doubt ONI was following Japanese task force very closely.

Not only military was intercepting IJN task force radio messages,but also
civilians,for example an American liner in Pasific picked up heavy radio
traffic from the task force and reported it to FBI.

No, they picked up radio traffic, they have no idea where it came from,
learn something about radio (try learning about 'skip distances') before you
comment.


On military side,for example,A seaman in the intelligence office of
the12th
Naval District HQ in SF had intercepted Japan radio traffic and used it to
plot
accurately the position of the Task Force.
He provided that info to his superiors and he was told by his superiors
that
his information was passed on to highest levels.

The Japanese themselves claim their fleet (Kido Butai) never sent a single
message. They say they dismantled the telegraph sending devices so a message
could not be sent. After the war, the Strategic Bombing Survey found the
Japanese military's own after-action report, which credits the success of
the attack to the fact that secrecy was maintained.

Among the reasons why secrecy was maintained, radio silence comes first.

He claims to have done that, no proof is offered.



Unfortunately the IJN records show otherwise, they went so far as to
dismantle the transmitters to be sure no mistake was made, but don't let
reality get in your way.


1)Sender of Nov,26 message which is the most revealing of all intercepted
IJN
dispatches was Yamamato and First air fleet was the intended recipient,not
the
other way around.
2)Task force never maintained 100% radio silence as explained above.

They issued a war warning expecting all commanders to act on it, the
competent ones did, the incompetent ones spent the rest of their lives
peddling conspiracy nonsense to the gullible and stupid.

As soon as they intercepted above referred Yamamato message revealing
Pearl
Harbor as target,they issued so called war warning .

The Japanese themselves claim their fleet (Kido Butai) never sent a single
message. They say they dismantled the telegraph sending devices so a message
could not be sent.

But there is a small problem,Yamamato message mentioned only one location
as
target,Pearl Harbor.

Nope.

The Japanese themselves claim their fleet (Kido Butai) never sent a single
message. They say they dismantled the telegraph sending devices so a message
could not be sent.

But so called War Warning included almost every location in Pasific as
possible
targets EXCEPT ,well,Pearl Harbor.

A war warning does not have to specify every possible location of combat.
Kimmel was incompetent, he got reamed for it, he deserved it. deal with it.


The Real goal of so called War Warning was not to warn possible
targets,its
goal was to deceive Japanese and make Japanese intel believe that US had
no
idea about Japanese intentions.


No, that is your opinion, try to distinguish between your opinion and
reality - a war warning warns (oddly enough) of impending war, given the
Brits at Taranto and the existence of aircraft carriers, a competent
commander would have acted on that warning. Kimmel didn't. he paid for it.



The problem you run into is that the stuff you claim happened didn't. you
really should seek professional help.

You know ,your outer space aliens,masquarading sometimes as
Spanians,sometimes
as German communists,sometimes as McCollum,sometimes as Islamic zealots.

Try reading some history rather than your comic books.

Obviously FDR administration did not want to go to war but
Peruvians,Koreans,Dutch etc, all were setting traps for FDR to force him
to
enter war.
I think something wrong in this picture,but I could not figure out what?

Any help appreciated.

You have so far ignored all the help you have been given, work it out

You are pretty good in dodging questions.I note you avoid the point, he has
already been shown to be a Nazi spy and a
liar - why trust him now?

So,He was a Nazi spy,other one was a Dutch naval officer,another one was a
personal friend of Hull,another one was a Peruvian minister,another one was a
Korean,another one was British double agent,another one was a Congressman and
committee Chairman,another was a USN personal so the list goes on and on.

So instead of asking the people not to believe witnessess and their
documents,you should have asked Congress to pass a bill and make believing to
the official versions mandatory.It would make everthing easier for you and me.

Hard to do otherwise when the radio is dismantled.

They were under order to keep radio silence not to dismantle radios,They used
them occasionaly and their messages were intercepted.


No, they picked up radio traffic, they have no idea where it came from,
learn something about radio (try learning about 'skip distances') before you
comment.


Even the Sailor Z in intel department of 12th naval district plotted course of
task force using radio intercepts.
His true identity has been revealed in 80s and he gave an official testimony to
Gov't investigator.

The Japanese themselves claim their fleet (Kido Butai) never sent a single
message. They say they dismantled the telegraph sending devices so a message
could not be sent. After the war, the Strategic Bombing Survey found the

Does the name McArthur remind you something about post WWII Japan?

"L'acrobat" wrote But Liebs story
was wrong, every day loons predict things that don't happen.

It also begs the question why Kimmel didn't take a war warning seriously,
when the local paper was running such stories.

Do try to deal with reality.

Maybe He was trusting much more to the Great Leaders in Washington
than the loons who made up such unbelieveable news.

Reality is still available in paper if you goto your library you can
even touch it,literally,

..

I just love these sorts of conspiracy theories, they provide endless hours
of laughter. It was to be expected Stinnett would make his appearance,
his use of the famed McCollum Memo.

By the way if you really want to have us believe Stinnett is the
authority check out his page 324 of his hardcover edition
where he states "There is no reliable evidence, found by the
author, that establishes how much of the 5 - Num [JN25]
could be deciphered, translated and read by naval cryptographers
in 1941". Now go back and read the book where it assumes,
his opinion, his assumption, the USN could read the signals
Stinnett wants them to have read, including the ones he tries
to pretend were sent by radio instead of hand delivered.
Stinnett has no idea what the USN could read, he simply gives
his opinion.

Stinnett is the man who discovered that truthful answers to Pearl
Harbor controversy secreted in bomb proof vaults,withheld from two
congressional investigations and from American People.
As Late as 1995 the Joint Congressional investigation conducted by
Sen.Thurman and and Rep.Franke was denied access to the Naval storage
vault in Crane, IN
Because of his efforts Naval Security Group Command agreed to transfer
Crane files to National Archieves.
"The Days of Deceipt" is based on what he found in first batch of
released documents.
After the days of deceipt appeared a strange thing happened,NSA
immediately started withdrawing pre Pearl Harbor documents from
Archive II.
As of today almost 30 NSA withdrawal notices guarantee that pre Pearl
Harbor documents discovered in Crane IN will be off limits to American
People and their elected represantatives for another 60 years
Your above mentioned quote from the book refers to percentage of
deciphered japanase messages it might be 30% or might be 100%.
As I said before the book was based on documents found in first batch
of Crane documents released in middle of 90s,and information revealed
in documents astonishing,but crane documents reviewed by Stinnett was
only a minuscule percentage of crane documents,by far not enough to
say something definite about the percentage of Japanase messages
deciphered and translated by US.

The conspiracy here is one where people are paid for telling other
people what they want to hear. The truth is to be ignored, the money
does the talking, be poorer for being lied to and then be unwilling to
admit the mistake, and so make yourself even poorer.

Official Version here is the one where the officials are paid for
telling the public what their bosses want.This is one important
difference.
Another important difference between offical story tellers and
conspiracy loons is the following:Offical story tellers have
priviledge to distort or completely withhold information whereas
conspiracy loons cannot even dream of having such priviledges.

However the really fun thing is the way the fiction in Stinnett is to
be enhanced, by promoting McCollum. No longer is he the Far East
expert in the Office of Naval Intelligence, no he is promoted to the
command of either ONI (Captain or Admiral rank) or the head of
OP-20-GYP, the USN organisation charged with breaking Japanese
codes, it was originally called OP-20-GY.

Also the famed memo never went further than his boss, nowhere
near FDR.
The Famed Memo did not need to go anywhere,it became offical Japan
policy of FDR administration.

By the way if the latest attempt at fiction is to somehow pretend
the USN decryption section did not do the work on "purple" it shows
an even bigger lack of reality. The "purple" work overloaded the
section, slowing down all work. The USN had only one section of
cryptographers and security cleared language experts.

Finally all the IJN documents and survivors agree the force did not
transmit after leaving their usual harbours. See for example the
surviving logs, the 1942 IJN after action report and the post war
interrogations. The idea Yamamoto would be so stupid as to
put his strike force in a harbour that could only be contacted by
radio is a joke.

The Japanese Navy took control over the cable station at Hitokappu
Bay. Also, there was a marine cable between Nemuro, Hokkaido
and Shana, Etorofu in 1941 which was then tied to the telegraph
office at Hitokappu Bay. Source. Recollection of Mr. Hirokazu
Kawguchi of Hachioji City in Tokyo who was born at Shana in
1923 and worked at the Shana cable office.

Next, there was a daily air courier service between Ominato and
Hitokappu Bay to transfer documents received from Tokyo by air
and to send documents to Tokyo by air while the 1st Air Fleet was
at Hitokappu Bay. Source. ?History on Communications? by
Admiral Susumiiro Ishiguru (of Strike Force experience) (Tokyo:
Tokyo Reserve Police Association 1953).


Who told Yamamato that their Naval code was broken?
Even today you can intercept any radio transmission easily,but if you
cannot decode and decipher it,its useless.
Even after Pearl Harbor IJN continued to use the same code because
they were not aware that it was broken.
Radio messages sent with unbroken or unbreakable code is as safe as
courier messages,if not more.

"denyav" wrote in message
om...
"L'acrobat" wrote But Liebs story
was wrong, every day loons predict things that don't happen.

It also begs the question why Kimmel didn't take a war warning
seriously,
when the local paper was running such stories.

Do try to deal with reality.

Maybe He was trusting much more to the Great Leaders in Washington
than the loons who made up such unbelieveable news.

Reality is still available in paper if you goto your library you can
even touch it,literally,


I see you have again chosen to avoid the facts. you are simply a loon and
well known for it.

"Denyav" wrote in message
...
Obviously FDR administration did not want to go to war but
Peruvians,Koreans,Dutch etc, all were setting traps for FDR to force
him
to
enter war.
I think something wrong in this picture,but I could not figure out
what?

Any help appreciated.

You have so far ignored all the help you have been given, work it out

You are pretty good in dodging questions.I note you avoid the point, he
has
already been shown to be a Nazi spy and a
liar - why trust him now?

So,He was a Nazi spy,other one was a Dutch naval officer,another one was a
personal friend of Hull,another one was a Peruvian minister,another one
was a
Korean,another one was British double agent,another one was a Congressman
and
committee Chairman,another was a USN personal so the list goes on and on.

No, the list doesn't go on - you do.

No transmissions were made by the IJN, the Germans didn't have a clue it was
happening and you are just a loon.


So instead of asking the people not to believe witnessess and their
documents,you should have asked Congress to pass a bill and make believing
to
the official versions mandatory.It would make everthing easier for you and
me.

Hard to do otherwise when the radio is dismantled.

They were under order to keep radio silence not to dismantle radios,They
used
them occasionaly and their messages were intercepted.

No, the IJN records show they were dismantled.

Reality. deal with it.



No, they picked up radio traffic, they have no idea where it came from,
learn something about radio (try learning about 'skip distances') before
you
comment.


Even the Sailor Z in intel department of 12th naval district plotted
course of
task force using radio intercepts.

Nope, try looking up skip distances.


His true identity has been revealed in 80s and he gave an official
testimony to
Gov't investigator.

The Japanese themselves claim their fleet (Kido Butai) never sent a
single
message. They say they dismantled the telegraph sending devices so a
message
could not be sent. After the war, the Strategic Bombing Survey found the

Does the name McArthur remind you something about post WWII Japan?

A whole new conspiracy. good. that will make you happy.

No, the list doesn't go on - you do.

No transmissions were made by the IJN, the Germans didn't have a clue it was
happening and you are just a loon

Please feel free to repeat the above thousands times more if it makes you
happy,but it wont change anything , big lies do not last for forever,even if
they are under NSA protection.

No, the IJN records show they were dismantled.

Reality. deal with it.

Thats your reality Sir,not the reality of many who actualy listen and report
them.
Actually IJN ships were under orders to cease communications after Nov.25
"EXCEPT" extreme emergencies.
The task force broke radio silence at least 28 times between between Nov.26 and
Dec.7.
Since they have NO radio equipment,they must have used cell phones of crew
members !.

Nope, try looking up skip distances.

I guess you never used a SW radio.

A whole new conspiracy. good. that will make you happy.


Mother of all conspiracies is to hide truth in somewhere in Indiana and deny
everyone,including the members of Congress,access to them.

Reality is still available in paper if you goto your library you can
even touch it,literally,


I see you have again chosen to avoid the facts. you are simply a loon and
well known for it.

Did you go to the library?

"Denyav" wrote in message
...


Reality is still available in paper if you goto your library you can
even touch it,literally,


I see you have again chosen to avoid the facts. you are simply a loon and
well known for it.

Did you go to the library?

It's you that needs to read some history rather than the conspirowhacko
drivel you keep reading.