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  #1  
Old October 30th 04, 12:50 PM
Rick McPherson
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Default currency

Hello All, I've been lurking in the shadows of this group for the
duration of my ifr training and subsequent passage of my ride. Thanks
to all of you for the great info. Now, my question is about
maintaining currency, the Regs state:"No person may act as pilot in
command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding six calendar months
that person has performed: (i) at least six instrument approaches;
(ii) holding procedures; and (iii) intercepting and tracking courses
through the use of navigation systems."
1. Can I file ifr in vfr or marginal weather, fly 3 or however many
approaches, and use them to remain current, or do I need to be "solely
by reference to the instruments" i.e., actual or simulated with a
safety pilot in order for them (approaches) to count?
2. How many of you use "handheld gps onboard" in the remarks field and
ask for "direct" enroute. Thanks in advance.

Rick


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  #2  
Old October 30th 04, 02:42 PM
Hankal
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2. How many of you use "handheld gps onboard" in the remarks field and
ask for "direct" enroute


I put VFR GPS in my remarks field. However I never file direct, always airways.
Once on the airway I may ask direct or get it without asking?
I keep current, but seldom get to fly approaches in IMC, I use my goggles too.
Hank
  #3  
Old October 30th 04, 02:54 PM
Peter Clark
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:50:06 -0400, Rick McPherson
wrote:

Hello All, I've been lurking in the shadows of this group for the
duration of my ifr training and subsequent passage of my ride. Thanks
to all of you for the great info. Now, my question is about
maintaining currency, the Regs state:"No person may act as pilot in
command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding six calendar months
that person has performed: (i) at least six instrument approaches;
(ii) holding procedures; and (iii) intercepting and tracking courses
through the use of navigation systems."
1. Can I file ifr in vfr or marginal weather, fly 3 or however many
approaches, and use them to remain current, or do I need to be "solely
by reference to the instruments" i.e., actual or simulated with a
safety pilot in order for them (approaches) to count?


If you were not current it would be a violation to file IFR, since you
weren't current and thus didn't meet the parts of 61.57(c) you quoted.
To file IFR you have to be current, regardless of whether it's IMC or
not. Combined with that, is the part of 61.57(c)(1) you omitted (but
alluded to) above, which starts "(1) For the purpose of obtaining
instrument experience in an aircraft (other than a glider), performed
and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions, either in
flight in the appropriate category of aircraft for the instrument
privileges sought or in a flight simulator or flight training device
that is representative of the aircraft category for the instrument
privileges sought" - meaning safety pilot, or instructor if VMC, or
done while still current in actual IMC.

2. How many of you use "handheld gps onboard" in the remarks field and
ask for "direct" enroute. Thanks in advance.


I believe this would be considered a violation if you're caught. I
know it's only advisory, but the AIM in section 1-1-19, section
(d)(1)(a) "General Requirements - 1 Authorization to conduct any GPS
operation under IFR requires that (a) GPS navigation equipment used
must be approved in accordance with the requirements specified in
Technical Standard Order (TSO) C-129, or equivalent, and the
installation must be done in accordance with Advisory Circular AC
20-138 or 20-130A." It also has a table which shows which classes of
GPS units are approved for what, based on their TSO-C129 approvals,
and handheld and VFR panel-mount are not checked off in the approved
"IFR enroute" column, and has a footnote which re-iterates a previous
"VFR and hand-held GPS systems are not authorized for IFR navigation,
instrument approaches, or as a primary instrument flight reference.
During IFR operations they may be considered only an aid to
situational awareness" statement.

Good luck!

  #4  
Old October 30th 04, 03:24 PM
Paul Tomblin
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In a previous article, Peter Clark said:
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:50:06 -0400, Rick McPherson
wrote:
2. How many of you use "handheld gps onboard" in the remarks field and
ask for "direct" enroute. Thanks in advance.


I believe this would be considered a violation if you're caught. I


A violation? Not if he didn't ask for or recieve a GPS routing. What do
you is you ask for a radar vector direct and follow it using your GPS. In
some situations, you can even prompt them for it by saying "can you give
me a radar vector 332 degrees direct to ALB". You're not using the GPS
as primary nav, you're using the radar vector as primary nav, and
monitoring it using the GPS. If the GPS died, you'd still be able to fly
the heading bug on your DG.

--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
You've got to love a newsreader with a menu option named "Kill this Author".
Does it work? And if so, is the death traceable?
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  #5  
Old October 30th 04, 04:08 PM
Roy Smith
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Rick McPherson wrote:

Hello All, I've been lurking in the shadows of this group for the
duration of my ifr training and subsequent passage of my ride. Thanks
to all of you for the great info. Now, my question is about
maintaining currency, the Regs state:"No person may act as pilot in
command under IFR or in weather conditions less than the minimums
prescribed for VFR, unless within the preceding six calendar months
that person has performed: (i) at least six instrument approaches;
(ii) holding procedures; and (iii) intercepting and tracking courses
through the use of navigation systems."


The above quote comes from 61.57(c), but you left out almost a whole
paragrpah. The full quote is:

61.57 Recent flight experience: Pilot in command.
[...]
(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this
section, no person may act as pilot in command under IFR or in weather
conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR, unless within the
preceding 6 calendar months, that person has:

(1) For the purpose of obtaining instrument experience in an aircraft
(other than a glider), performed and logged under actual or simulated
instrument conditions, either in flight in the appropriate category of
aircraft for the instrument privileges sought or in a flight simulator
or flight training device that is representative of the aircraft
category for the instrument privileges sought

(i) At least six instrument approaches;

(ii) Holding procedures; and

(iii) Intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigation
systems.

1. Can I file ifr in vfr or marginal weather, fly 3 or however many
approaches, and use them to remain current, or do I need to be "solely
by reference to the instruments" i.e., actual or simulated with a
safety pilot in order for them (approaches) to count?


The paragraph you omitted gives you the answer; they must be "performed
and logged under actual or simulated instrument conditions".
  #6  
Old October 30th 04, 05:25 PM
Peter Clark
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:24:01 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

In a previous article, Peter Clark said:
On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 07:50:06 -0400, Rick McPherson
wrote:
2. How many of you use "handheld gps onboard" in the remarks field and
ask for "direct" enroute. Thanks in advance.


I believe this would be considered a violation if you're caught. I


A violation? Not if he didn't ask for or recieve a GPS routing. What do
you is you ask for a radar vector direct and follow it using your GPS. In
some situations, you can even prompt them for it by saying "can you give
me a radar vector 332 degrees direct to ALB". You're not using the GPS
as primary nav, you're using the radar vector as primary nav, and
monitoring it using the GPS. If the GPS died, you'd still be able to fly
the heading bug on your DG.


Your use would be covered under the "situational awareness" clause. I
bet you don't file /G or say "handheld GPS onboard" in your flight
plans with only a handheld, right? His intent clearly appears to be
using the handheld GPS for direct routing (otherwise why would there
be a comment in the flight plan and the request for direct enroute?)
and that's clearly against the objective of the rule. Basically, if
you only have a handheld, rule says you can't use it for anything
other than a backup to what's in the aircraft, why mention it in the
first place? It doesn't appear to buy anything in the IFR enroute
environment.

  #7  
Old October 30th 04, 07:16 PM
Newps
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Peter Clark wrote:
I
bet you don't say "handheld GPS onboard" in your flight
plans with only a handheld, right?


Why wouldn't you say "handheld on board" if you didn't actually have a
handheld?


His intent clearly appears to be
using the handheld GPS for direct routing (otherwise why would there
be a comment in the flight plan and the request for direct enroute?)


Because you get the vector and then use your handheld. That is legal.



  #8  
Old October 30th 04, 07:58 PM
C Kingsbury
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Is there any benefit to noting "handheld" or "VFR GPS" in the remarks? Or do
you just file /U or whatever and ask for a radar vector once you're up
there?

"Newps" wrote in message
...


Peter Clark wrote:
I
bet you don't say "handheld GPS onboard" in your flight
plans with only a handheld, right?


Why wouldn't you say "handheld on board" if you didn't actually have a
handheld?


His intent clearly appears to be
using the handheld GPS for direct routing (otherwise why would there
be a comment in the flight plan and the request for direct enroute?)


Because you get the vector and then use your handheld. That is legal.





  #9  
Old October 30th 04, 08:01 PM
Peter Clark
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:16:32 -0600, Newps wrote:



Peter Clark wrote:


His intent clearly appears to be
using the handheld GPS for direct routing (otherwise why would there
be a comment in the flight plan and the request for direct enroute?)


Because you get the vector and then use your handheld. That is legal.


OK, but the original post didn't say anything about vectors. It said
"put a comment in the flight plan 'handheld gps onboard'" - to me that
implys the poster is attempting to tell ATC "I can do RNAV /G, I don't
really have that equipment so I can't file /G, but hey it's cool, you
can give me that direct routing anyway because I have this neat
handheld GPS". Is that legal? If not, why bother with the "handheld
gps onboard" comment? It doesn't make any difference to ATC - vectors
are vectors, whatever you're using to turn to them, and if it's not
legal for RNAV it still doesn't matter whether you have it, right?

  #10  
Old October 30th 04, 09:02 PM
Rick McPherson
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On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:01:22 -0400, Peter Clark
wrote:

On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:16:32 -0600, Newps wrote:



Peter Clark wrote:


His intent clearly appears to be
using the handheld GPS for direct routing (otherwise why would there
be a comment in the flight plan and the request for direct enroute?)


Because you get the vector and then use your handheld. That is legal.


OK, but the original post didn't say anything about vectors. It said
"put a comment in the flight plan 'handheld gps onboard'" - to me that
implys the poster is attempting to tell ATC "I can do RNAV /G, I don't
really have that equipment so I can't file /G, but hey it's cool, you
can give me that direct routing anyway because I have this neat
handheld GPS". Is that legal? If not, why bother with the "handheld
gps onboard" comment? It doesn't make any difference to ATC - vectors
are vectors, whatever you're using to turn to them, and if it's not
legal for RNAV it still doesn't matter whether you have it, right?

Peter,

Your right. I have no intention of flying strictly via garmin 195,
that would be illegal. I file /U. However, through some interesting
discussion here, I do see how atc can accommodate me legally. I fly in
Western PA and am rarely out of radar coverage. thanks for your help.


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