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Why are so many Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale?



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 30th 07, 11:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 194
Default Why are so many Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale?

On Oct 28, 12:23 am, VARR wrote:
There appear to be a number of Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale.
Are these people already upgrading to the Antares? ;-)


The Stemme is a very special aircraft - it can tour great
distances at high speed, with a friend and maybe even
a toothbrush. It has good performance as a glider.
It is complicated to do all these things...

The Antares is a very different machine for a different use.
It has extremely high performance, but only one seat.
Not for touring under power, though more than enough
capacity for launching and reserve (I've never had mine
below 65% capacity). I rig and derig my Antares quickly
by myself, the Stemme needs a Hangar. The Antares
is more agile than some 15-meter ships, the Stemme
is a bit, um, deliberate about changing direction.

So it wouldn't be an upgrade so much as a change
for a different kind of flying !

Best Regards, Dave "YO"

Ads
  #12  
Old October 31st 07, 04:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 158
Default Why are so many Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale?

On Oct 30, 4:16 pm, wrote:
On Oct 28, 12:23 am, VARR wrote:

There appear to be a number of Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale.
Are these people already upgrading to the Antares? ;-)


The Stemme is a very special aircraft - it can tour great
distances at high speed, with a friend and maybe even
a toothbrush. It has good performance as a glider.
It is complicated to do all these things...

The Antares is a very different machine for a different use.
It has extremely high performance, but only one seat.
Not for touring under power, though more than enough
capacity for launching and reserve (I've never had mine
below 65% capacity). I rig and derig my Antares quickly
by myself, the Stemme needs a Hangar. The Antares
is more agile than some 15-meter ships, the Stemme
is a bit, um, deliberate about changing direction.

So it wouldn't be an upgrade so much as a change
for a different kind of flying !

Best Regards, Dave "YO"

Dave,
Everyone's requirements for a motorglider are different. My main
goal is to eliminate the long drive time to the gliderports. This is
a fact of life in southern California especially if you live in the
beach areas. I have a hangar/shop at an airport so that is no
problem, in my case it is what I desire.
My requirements for the "perfect motorglider" are to operate out of a
small narrow airport in the Los Angeles basin very close to LAX. I
need to taxi and maybe even taxi with the wings folded. I need to
taxi around many obstacles just as easily as a Cessna. I want to fly
50 miles or more to areas where I can soar. I feel these two
requirements can not be filled with self launchers. I'm sure the
Antares is a wonderful machine but I put the Antares into the category
of being a self launcher, not a motorglider. I've never seen an
Antares but when I've considered a self launcher I have gravitated
towards the ASH-26E, mostly because I've seen them and flown with
them.
I've flown the Stemme and the Ximango and liked them both. They both
fit the physical taxi and ground maneuvering requirements I desire.
Having owned an ASW-20 for several years I don't think I would be
happy with lower performance so the Stemme is more appealing from that
point of view. When I flew the Stemme we flew both ridge and thermals
found it handled very well. It truly is an awesome machine.
The Carat is also high on my list. I'm a little concerned it may be a
little tight to taxi around my airport. The span will just fit
(tight) but the new FAA mandated signage at taxi ways may pose a
problem. I haven't flown one but I've seen and flown with a few,
they impress me.
A nice feature I do like about a self launcher and the Carat is the
ability to trailer as an option. This would allow more flexibility
with regards to weather. The ability to trailer would minimize the
problems we have with VFR flight during the "June Gloom" marine
stratus we deal with in the summer here in SoCal.
Maybe if the next version of Antares had a conventional landing gear
and folding wing tips it would be higher on my list!

Dan Rihn
ASW-20 WO


  #13  
Old October 31st 07, 05:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 174
Default Why are so many Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale?

Hi Dan

Only ~1:40 but the Pipistrel Taurus would also be a good option given the
requirements you set.

Bruce

Dan wrote:
On Oct 30, 4:16 pm, wrote:
On Oct 28, 12:23 am, VARR wrote:

There appear to be a number of Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale.
Are these people already upgrading to the Antares? ;-)

The Stemme is a very special aircraft - it can tour great
distances at high speed, with a friend and maybe even
a toothbrush. It has good performance as a glider.
It is complicated to do all these things...

The Antares is a very different machine for a different use.
It has extremely high performance, but only one seat.
Not for touring under power, though more than enough
capacity for launching and reserve (I've never had mine
below 65% capacity). I rig and derig my Antares quickly
by myself, the Stemme needs a Hangar. The Antares
is more agile than some 15-meter ships, the Stemme
is a bit, um, deliberate about changing direction.

So it wouldn't be an upgrade so much as a change
for a different kind of flying !

Best Regards, Dave "YO"

Dave,
Everyone's requirements for a motorglider are different. My main
goal is to eliminate the long drive time to the gliderports. This is
a fact of life in southern California especially if you live in the
beach areas. I have a hangar/shop at an airport so that is no
problem, in my case it is what I desire.
My requirements for the "perfect motorglider" are to operate out of a
small narrow airport in the Los Angeles basin very close to LAX. I
need to taxi and maybe even taxi with the wings folded. I need to
taxi around many obstacles just as easily as a Cessna. I want to fly
50 miles or more to areas where I can soar. I feel these two
requirements can not be filled with self launchers. I'm sure the
Antares is a wonderful machine but I put the Antares into the category
of being a self launcher, not a motorglider. I've never seen an
Antares but when I've considered a self launcher I have gravitated
towards the ASH-26E, mostly because I've seen them and flown with
them.
I've flown the Stemme and the Ximango and liked them both. They both
fit the physical taxi and ground maneuvering requirements I desire.
Having owned an ASW-20 for several years I don't think I would be
happy with lower performance so the Stemme is more appealing from that
point of view. When I flew the Stemme we flew both ridge and thermals
found it handled very well. It truly is an awesome machine.
The Carat is also high on my list. I'm a little concerned it may be a
little tight to taxi around my airport. The span will just fit
(tight) but the new FAA mandated signage at taxi ways may pose a
problem. I haven't flown one but I've seen and flown with a few,
they impress me.
A nice feature I do like about a self launcher and the Carat is the
ability to trailer as an option. This would allow more flexibility
with regards to weather. The ability to trailer would minimize the
problems we have with VFR flight during the "June Gloom" marine
stratus we deal with in the summer here in SoCal.
Maybe if the next version of Antares had a conventional landing gear
and folding wing tips it would be higher on my list!

Dan Rihn
ASW-20 WO


  #14  
Old October 31st 07, 05:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bumper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 322
Default Why are so many Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale?

Back when I worked for a living (though some employees may think that never
occurred), it was convenient to slip off to the airport and pull the Stemme
out of the T-hangar. Unfolding the wings took minutes, pre-flight a bit
longer, but altogether much less time and effort than rigging a glider.

The Stemme allowed me to go soaring as easily as pulling a Mooney out of the
hangar. It also allowed operations at a tower controlled airport (Napa, CA)
with no hassles either as a power plane taxiing out or, a few hours later,
as a glider returning to land. There's no way I could have enjoyed such
spur-of-the-moment soaring with the ASH26E I own now.

The Stemme S10-VT is uniquely capable when it comes to ground handling,
cruising under power, cruise climb to high altitude (great for saw-tooth
eating distance), and soaring performance including high speed polar. All of
this capability rolled into one package does come at a price. Systems are
complex and ship maintenance shouldn't be ignored. Yearly maintenance costs,
while not a deal breaker, will be significantly more that with a pylon
self-launcher.

So why did I sell the Stemme for a ASH26? I retired and moved to Minden, so
some of the Stemme's advantages were no longer needed. I continue to fly the
26E alongside my Stemme friends. The ships perform very similarly, though
the 26E will outclimb the S-10 in smaller or weaker thermals. Running
between thermals at 90 knots, the sink rate is so close it's hard to tell a
difference.

Under power there is no comparison. The S10-VT easily climbs at 90 - 100
knots and is still going strong at 18K. In level cruise it easily does 125
knots without pushing hard. The ASH26E can climb 8K AGL if you're patient.
In level cruise it'll do 70 knots (due to the climb prop). On the plus side,
my 26E has been very reliable.

Yup, I lived through the VT's early-on prop, gear box recalls and most of
the AD's. Even so, if I needed the capabilities of the Stemme I'd consider
buying another.

As far a bemoaning the prices of self-launchers and motorgliders in general
.. . . have you checked the price of a new Cessna? Even with the weak dollar,
compared to the aluminum stuff new gliders still look pretty good.

bumper
Quiet Vent kit & MKII "high tech" yaw string (the cheapest toys you can get
for your glider)



  #15  
Old October 31st 07, 01:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 158
Default Why are so many Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale?

On Oct 30, 10:40 pm, Bruce wrote:
Hi Dan

Only ~1:40 but the Pipistrel Taurus would also be a good option given the
requirements you set.

Bruce



Dan wrote:
On Oct 30, 4:16 pm, wrote:
On Oct 28, 12:23 am, VARR wrote:


There appear to be a number of Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale.
Are these people already upgrading to the Antares? ;-)
The Stemme is a very special aircraft - it can tour great
distances at high speed, with a friend and maybe even
a toothbrush. It has good performance as a glider.
It is complicated to do all these things...


The Antares is a very different machine for a different use.
It has extremely high performance, but only one seat.
Not for touring under power, though more than enough
capacity for launching and reserve (I've never had mine
below 65% capacity). I rig and derig my Antares quickly
by myself, the Stemme needs a Hangar. The Antares
is more agile than some 15-meter ships, the Stemme
is a bit, um, deliberate about changing direction.


So it wouldn't be an upgrade so much as a change
for a different kind of flying !


Best Regards, Dave "YO"

Dave,
Everyone's requirements for a motorglider are different. My main
goal is to eliminate the long drive time to the gliderports. This is
a fact of life in southern California especially if you live in the
beach areas. I have a hangar/shop at an airport so that is no
problem, in my case it is what I desire.
My requirements for the "perfect motorglider" are to operate out of a
small narrow airport in the Los Angeles basin very close to LAX. I
need to taxi and maybe even taxi with the wings folded. I need to
taxi around many obstacles just as easily as a Cessna. I want to fly
50 miles or more to areas where I can soar. I feel these two
requirements can not be filled with self launchers. I'm sure the
Antares is a wonderful machine but I put the Antares into the category
of being a self launcher, not a motorglider. I've never seen an
Antares but when I've considered a self launcher I have gravitated
towards the ASH-26E, mostly because I've seen them and flown with
them.
I've flown the Stemme and the Ximango and liked them both. They both
fit the physical taxi and ground maneuvering requirements I desire.
Having owned an ASW-20 for several years I don't think I would be
happy with lower performance so the Stemme is more appealing from that
point of view. When I flew the Stemme we flew both ridge and thermals
found it handled very well. It truly is an awesome machine.
The Carat is also high on my list. I'm a little concerned it may be a
little tight to taxi around my airport. The span will just fit
(tight) but the new FAA mandated signage at taxi ways may pose a
problem. I haven't flown one but I've seen and flown with a few,
they impress me.
A nice feature I do like about a self launcher and the Carat is the
ability to trailer as an option. This would allow more flexibility
with regards to weather. The ability to trailer would minimize the
problems we have with VFR flight during the "June Gloom" marine
stratus we deal with in the summer here in SoCal.
Maybe if the next version of Antares had a conventional landing gear
and folding wing tips it would be higher on my list!


Dan Rihn
ASW-20 WO- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Bruce,
Yes, I've been following the Taurus as well as waiting for the Mangus/
Maxus to fly. Also keeping an eye on the latest from Stemme. At the
same time saving my money and waiting for the dollar to turn around.
Meanwhile loving my ASW-20 and wishing it could taxi, takeoff, climb
out and motor home at the end of the day!

Dan

  #16  
Old October 31st 07, 01:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 158
Default Why are so many Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale?

On Oct 30, 10:41 pm, "bumper" wrote:
Back when I worked for a living (though some employees may think that never
occurred), it was convenient to slip off to the airport and pull the Stemme
out of the T-hangar. Unfolding the wings took minutes, pre-flight a bit
longer, but altogether much less time and effort than rigging a glider.

The Stemme allowed me to go soaring as easily as pulling a Mooney out of the
hangar. It also allowed operations at a tower controlled airport (Napa, CA)
with no hassles either as a power plane taxiing out or, a few hours later,
as a glider returning to land. There's no way I could have enjoyed such
spur-of-the-moment soaring with the ASH26E I own now.

The Stemme S10-VT is uniquely capable when it comes to ground handling,
cruising under power, cruise climb to high altitude (great for saw-tooth
eating distance), and soaring performance including high speed polar. All of
this capability rolled into one package does come at a price. Systems are
complex and ship maintenance shouldn't be ignored. Yearly maintenance costs,
while not a deal breaker, will be significantly more that with a pylon
self-launcher.

So why did I sell the Stemme for a ASH26? I retired and moved to Minden, so
some of the Stemme's advantages were no longer needed. I continue to fly the
26E alongside my Stemme friends. The ships perform very similarly, though
the 26E will outclimb the S-10 in smaller or weaker thermals. Running
between thermals at 90 knots, the sink rate is so close it's hard to tell a
difference.

Under power there is no comparison. The S10-VT easily climbs at 90 - 100
knots and is still going strong at 18K. In level cruise it easily does 125
knots without pushing hard. The ASH26E can climb 8K AGL if you're patient.
In level cruise it'll do 70 knots (due to the climb prop). On the plus side,
my 26E has been very reliable.

Yup, I lived through the VT's early-on prop, gear box recalls and most of
the AD's. Even so, if I needed the capabilities of the Stemme I'd consider
buying another.

As far a bemoaning the prices of self-launchers and motorgliders in general
. . . have you checked the price of a new Cessna? Even with the weak dollar,
compared to the aluminum stuff new gliders still look pretty good.

bumper
Quiet Vent kit & MKII "high tech" yaw string (the cheapest toys you can get
for your glider)


Bumper,
As usual you are right on. My situation is more like yours when you
operated out of Napa. Also like you, my living situation may change
when I retire. That would change my requirements and a self launcher
would be more acceptable.
Dan

  #17  
Old October 31st 07, 05:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Why are so many Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale?

This is a good thread and I would like to add my 2 cents worth. I
did have 5 flying machines, 2 single engine aircraft and 3 gliders. I
decided a month ago to reduce my fleet. With the power planes, and the
fact that I might loose my medical, letting go of the Lancair ES and
keeping the new Jabiru J250 light sports aircraft made sense. The
beautiful Lancair now has a very happy new owner. The decision with
the 3 soaring machines was more difficult. I have a Stemme S10-VT, a
DG800B and a SparrowHawk. I decided to lighten up by one. Which one?
If you have read what has been said most of the considerations have
been mentioned and I concur with almost all previously said.
OK, so what are my personal preferences? Minimum hazzle and maximum
fun. The DG rigging is a pain and really needs 2 people. So for the
winter it goes into its trailer. Both the Stemme and the SparrowHawk
fit into T hangers and are used year around. Much better ground
handlng with the Stemme and the SparrowHawk. The performances of the
DG and Stemme are virtually identical. The Stemme is a 2 place side by
side machine and I like that. The Stemme can cruise indefinitely at
greater than 100 knots up to 18,000 feet. It is the most versatile and
convenient motor glider (power plane?) in the world. The SparrowHawk
is by far the most fun glider I have ever flown, superbly light in its
handling and its ground handling is second to no glider. Just 100% fun
although I don't attempt 100k XCs with it (that's reserved for my 50/1
ships).
So which one of the 3 soaring machines do you think I have up for
sale?
Dave

  #18  
Old October 31st 07, 05:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike the Strike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 926
Default Why are so many Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale?

On Oct 31, 11:23 am, "
wrote:
This is a good thread and I would like to add my 2 cents worth. I
did have 5 flying machines, 2 single engine aircraft and 3 gliders. I
decided a month ago to reduce my fleet. With the power planes, and the
fact that I might loose my medical, letting go of the Lancair ES and
keeping the new Jabiru J250 light sports aircraft made sense.


If you lose your medical (fail an FAA medical test), then it's my
understanding that you can't fly gliders, motorgliders or LSAs
either. You don't need to pass an aviation medical for the latter,
but you need to self-certify that you are fit to fly. Failure of an
FAA medical would overrule any self-certification.

So, if you think you are going to fail the FAA medical, just allow it
to lapse, then you can (fairly) honestly self-certify.

Perhaps specialists in this medical area would like to comment.

Mike

  #19  
Old October 31st 07, 06:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bullwinkle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default Why are so many Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale?

On 10/31/07 11:35 AM, in article
, "Mike the Strike"
wrote:

On Oct 31, 11:23 am, "
wrote:
This is a good thread and I would like to add my 2 cents worth. I
did have 5 flying machines, 2 single engine aircraft and 3 gliders. I
decided a month ago to reduce my fleet. With the power planes, and the
fact that I might loose my medical, letting go of the Lancair ES and
keeping the new Jabiru J250 light sports aircraft made sense.


If you lose your medical (fail an FAA medical test), then it's my
understanding that you can't fly gliders, motorgliders or LSAs
either. You don't need to pass an aviation medical for the latter,
but you need to self-certify that you are fit to fly. Failure of an
FAA medical would overrule any self-certification.

So, if you think you are going to fail the FAA medical, just allow it
to lapse, then you can (fairly) honestly self-certify.

Perhaps specialists in this medical area would like to comment.

Mike

Partly right.

You can fly gliders or motorgliders without a medical, whether or not
medical certification has been formally denied by the FAA.

LSA's can be flown with just a driver's license medical clearance, AS LONG
AS the pilot has not been formally denied FAA medical certification. Thus,
if you know you're going to fail (and be denied), just let your medical
lapse.

That stated, there are many medical conditions for which a pilot assumes
they will be grounded that the FAA will actually clear.

I recommend a confidential discussion with the aeromedical docs at Virtual
Flight Surgeons,
www.aviationmedicine.com . You might be surprised by what
you find out.

Bullwinkle

  #20  
Old November 1st 07, 04:03 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 29
Default Why are so many Stemme S10-VT motorgliders for sale?

Firstly a correction - I said 100k XCs. I meant 1000k XCs. That said
a
comment on medicals and reasonable behavior. The light sport aircraft
category,
as has been described, needs either a FAA medical or a valid US
driving license
with the caveat that a FAA medical has not been denied. If denied you
cannot fly a
light sports aircraft. So if you don't think your FAA medical will be
approved
don't take it period. You will still be able to fly gliders and real
complex aircraft
such as the Stemme without a medical even if it has been denied.
Sounds
reasonable? NO! But that is the law.
Being a reasonable person I find this nonsense and I have to judge,
whether or
not. for me, flying an aircraft makes sense. At this time yes but
there will be a
time when I will have to give up flying. Again as a reasonable person
I think I will
be able to recognize that time and take up instead perhaps golf, the
ultimate old
geezer's sport. I tried it 45 years ago and found it such a waste of
time I gave it
up but who knows what the future may hold? Choices narrow with age.
Dave

 




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