Turn to Final - Keeping Ball Centered

On Mar 12, 6:05 pm, "Owner" wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...



On Mar 12, 12:31 pm, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
and as it turned
out the fella was gov qualified to license me,
which he did.
Ken

Which one is you?

Total Names found for KEN TUCKER is 22.

KENNETH CARDEN TUCKER KENNETH EDWARD TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER KENDALL JOHN TUCKER
KENNETH EDWARD TUCKER KENNETH RAY TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER KENNETH THOMAS TUCKER
KENNETH RICHARD TUCKER KENNETH DALE TUCKER
KENNETH E TUCKER KENNETH J TUCKER
KENNETH JOHN TUCKER KENT HOWARD TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER KENNETH WAYNE TUCKER
KENT DAVID TUCKER KENT LEE TUCKER
KENNETH ROYAL TUCKER KENNETH CLAYTON TUCKER
KENNETH STEVEN TUCKER KENNETH HAROLD TUCKER

LOL, thank you for your interest in me.
I'm afraid I cannot post my license number
off my old paper license for security reasons,
and not my Mensa number either, or social
security number, CIA file etc. ,
it's all classified.

Yes, your psychologist did say all your information is classified, but I
thought that was due to doctor/patient privileges

u1= -sin H sin P cos R + cos H sin R
u2 = cos H sin P cos R - sin H sin R
u3 = cos P cos R
Unit vector u is up, H is Heading, R is Roll, P is Pitch.

Vectors A = G+L+T+D
A is net acceleration, Gravity, Lift, Thrust, Drag.
G = -1k.

Is any of that familiar?
If so, are the components of u correct?
I'm also a student of aerodynamics.
Ken

On Mar 13, 12:30*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
terry wrote:
On Mar 13, 9:35 am, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message

. ..

Exactly. The difference between a loaded turn and simply allowing the nose to
fall through with reduced back pressure.
* *Reducing back pressure is something an inexperienced pilot is instinctively
loath to do when manuvering close to the ground, much more likely to be pulling.

on the contrary I have a habit of deliberately pushing forward on the
yoke as I turn onto final, it comes from a fear of stalling and the
fact
that being at this stage of the landing procedure I want my attention
focused outside the cockpit to ensure I line up out of the turn on the
runway centerline, and not worrying about my airspeed.
Terry

You had good instruction Terry. I'd only add for you to monitor your
airspeed as well. In other words, never omit an available cue.

Its not something I was actually trained to do, just something I
developed myself to be sure I dont lose any speed. Although I do
remember in my training losing airspeed in the turns practising
power off landings while concentrating too much on finding a field.
Having carefully trimmed the C150 to 65 kt glide speed I was maybe
dropping to 55 kts in the turns. I can still remember the instructors
warning to "watch the f......k airspeed in the turn or it will bite
you one day" Rather than watching the airspeed more carefully, I
just developed the habit of dipping the nose a bit to make sure of
it. I think its just an overload thing. While I do normally keep a
close watch on my airspeed, when I am turning I think I focus too much
on the attitude indicator instead of the ASI, as well as focusing
outside of course. I guess I am one of those people who have trouble
walking and chewing gum at the same time!
Terry

"Ken ****head Tucker" wrote in
:

On Mar 12, 6:05 pm, "Owner" wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in

ups.com...



On Mar 12, 12:31 pm, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
and as it turned
out the fella was gov qualified to license me,
which he did.
Ken

Which one is you?

Total Names found for KEN TUCKER is 22.

KENNETH CARDEN TUCKER KENNETH EDWARD TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER KENDALL JOHN TUCKER
KENNETH EDWARD TUCKER KENNETH RAY TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER KENNETH THOMAS TUCKER
KENNETH RICHARD TUCKER KENNETH DALE TUCKER
KENNETH E TUCKER KENNETH J TUCKER
KENNETH JOHN TUCKER KENT HOWARD TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER KENNETH WAYNE TUCKER
KENT DAVID TUCKER KENT LEE TUCKER
KENNETH ROYAL TUCKER KENNETH CLAYTON TUCKER
KENNETH STEVEN TUCKER KENNETH HAROLD TUCKER

LOL, thank you for your interest in me.
I'm afraid I cannot post my license number
off my old paper license for security reasons,
and not my Mensa number either, or social
security number, CIA file etc. ,
it's all classified.

Yes, your psychologist did say all your information is classified,
but I thought that was due to doctor/patient privileges

u1= -sin H sin P cos R + cos H sin R
u2 = cos H sin P cos R - sin H sin R
u3 = cos P cos R
Unit vector u is up, H is Heading, R is Roll, P is Pitch.

Vectors A = G+L+T+D
A is net acceleration, Gravity, Lift, Thrust, Drag.
G = -1k.

Is any of that familiar?
If so, are the components of u correct?
I'm also a student of aerodynamics.
Ken


You're a student of assodynamics, as can be readily seen in this
picture of you studying: http://tinyurl.com/2zxtrq

On Mar 13, 6:45*pm, Roger wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:10:06 -0400, Dudley Henriques





wrote:
Roger wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:08:30 -0400, Dudley Henriques
wrote:

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
. ..
Exactly. The difference between a loaded turn and simply allowing the nose to
fall through with reduced back pressure.
snip for brevity

I consider the imparting of this attitude in a student pilot a critical
aspect of stall recovery training.
I can't emphasize it's importance enough to new instructors.

After following many of these threads over the years I am truly
thankful for the instructors who followed these tenants in my primary
training.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Me too !

One of the things they emphasized was if I ever encountered an
accelerated stall close to the ground was to just point the nose in
the direction it wanted to go. *

How does that fix a developing yaw?

Cheers

On Mar 13, 7:37*pm, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:
On Mar 12, 6:05 pm, "Owner" wrote:





"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in ...

On Mar 12, 12:31 pm, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
*and as it turned
out the fella was gov qualified to license me,
which he did.
Ken

Which one is you?

Total Names found for KEN TUCKER is 22.

KENNETH CARDEN TUCKER * KENNETH EDWARD TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER * KENDALL JOHN TUCKER
KENNETH EDWARD TUCKER * KENNETH RAY TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER * KENNETH THOMAS TUCKER
KENNETH RICHARD TUCKER * KENNETH DALE TUCKER
KENNETH E TUCKER * KENNETH J TUCKER
KENNETH JOHN TUCKER * KENT HOWARD TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER * KENNETH WAYNE TUCKER
KENT DAVID TUCKER * KENT LEE TUCKER
KENNETH ROYAL TUCKER * KENNETH CLAYTON TUCKER
KENNETH STEVEN TUCKER * KENNETH HAROLD TUCKER

LOL, thank you for your interest in me.
I'm afraid I cannot post my license number
off my old paper license for security reasons,
and not my Mensa number either, or social
security number, CIA file etc. ,
it's all classified.

Yes, your psychologist did say all your information is classified, but I
thought that was due to doctor/patient privileges

u1= -sin H sin P cos R + cos H sin R
u2 = cos H sin P cos R - sin H sin R
u3 = cos P cos R
Unit vector u is up, H is Heading, R is Roll, P is Pitch.

Vectors A = G+L+T+D
A is net acceleration, Gravity, Lift, Thrust, Drag.
G = -1k.

Is any of that familiar?
If so, are the components of u correct?
I'm also a student of aerodynamics.

Nope. Forces don't equal acceleration You are a fraud.

Cheers

On Mar 13, 4:55*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
WJRFlyBoy wrote :





On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:46:16 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

Tina wrote in news:874d408e-73e6-4064-8d08-
:

I don't think anyone has suggested this, but there is a nearly
universal cure if you find yourself uncomfortably out of a
reasonable approach condition -- simply say to yourself this isn't
looking good enough, *go around, and do better the next time.

It's my uneducated opinion that too many perfectly good airplanes
get turned to scrap because pilots continue to commit to an action
that has become untenable. You have a hand on the throttle and it's
important to remember to be ready to push it in if you don't like
the way things are shaping up.

Absolutely.

Don't let ego get in the way of good judgement.

True again. Sometimes it's not ego, though. A lot of thigs come into
play, especially if conditions are tough. It's a curious thing, the
sort of single-mindedness that often accompanies an accident.

Bertie

Lesson here is go-around if concerned and make sure you are preset for
that option?

Yeah. Should be, but we're only human. We have a two approach limit, too.
We're not allowed to do a third one ( company manual)
the number of accidents off a third approach is alarming.

so you just stay up there? :)

On Mar 13, 1:53 am, Roger wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 18:40:09 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
wrote:



"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in news:343516c1-8fa1-
:

On Mar 12, 3:39 am, Dan wrote:
On Mar 12, 2:18 am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

-- IGNORE BELOW -- Depends on the A/C, what were you flying?
In an F-4 doing a 3-4g bank is easy, but in
a trainer I'd suggest 2g max.
Ken

-- IGNORE ABOVE ---

Assuming you're not flying an F-4 in a sim, we'll move on to
reality....

This fear is (correctly) pounded into every aspiring/training pilot

And although we sometimes hear complaints about the GA safety record,
There are those rare statements that sometimes make me wonder why it's
as good as it is.
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)www.rogerhalstead.com

Hunh?

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"WingFlaps" wrote in message
...
My instrument flight test required level steep turns partial panel, which I
assume was 45 degrees or more.

How do you judge a 45 degree bank angle with just a TC as you would
have with partial panel (no AH)?


A 45 degree turn in most planes is going to peg the needle in the turn
indicator.

And the last thing you want to be doing partial panel are manouvers
like that. Standard rate at the most.

It's certainly not in the PTS or any FAA-endorsed curriculum.

Roger wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:52:38 -0800, Jim Stewart
wrote:

Ken S. Tucker wrote:
On Mar 12, 3:39 am, Dan wrote:
On Mar 12, 2:18 am, "Ken S. Tucker" wrote:

-- IGNORE BELOW -- Depends on the A/C, what were you flying?
In an F-4 doing a 3-4g bank is easy, but in
a trainer I'd suggest 2g max.
Ken
-- IGNORE ABOVE ---

Assuming you're not flying an F-4 in a sim, we'll move on to
reality....

This fear is (correctly) pounded into every aspiring/training pilot --
don't cross control stall on turn to final!
A pilot is trained to do 2g coordinated turns,
even in twink flying, gee I wonder why.
It's a perfectly safe thing to do and IIRC was

Perfectly safe if not close to the ground and the pilot is proficient
ant not just current.

a requirement for a pilot's license.
Are you just making this stuff up as you go along?

The Practical Test Standard requires the
demonstration of a steep turn at 45 degree
bank and a safe or recommended airspeed.

That's as steep and high g as it gets and it's
not going to be 2g in my plane.

2Gg turns are fun nor are they hazardous when not done close to the
ground. When I took Bo specific training the instructor started
talking me into a steep turn. I asked if it was OK to just roll into
it and go. I He said "OK", so I just rolled left and pulled. Coming up
on the proper heading he said now lets do one the other direction
where by I rolled to the right and pulled. This brought a laughing
comment, "You really like to do these things don't you?" My puzzled
"sure", brought the explanation that most of the Bo pilots would only
grudgingly do 45 degrees let alone 60. You should have heard them
complain when told the instructors would be blocking the yokes so they
couldn't use the ailerons when doing stalls.:-))

I've found few of newer pilots and instructors like 2G at 60 degrees
or the stalling characteristics of the Deb so when I go out to
practice it's only the "old timers" who go along.

When I took the PTS it was 60 degrees and 2Gs. By not going to 60
degrees in steep turns the students miss out on the different banking
tendencies/characteristics. I often think it should be put back to
that. There have been moments where I've been glad they did things
that way back then. One such moment was when a ultra light flying far
later than allowed popped out of the dark directly in front of me when
I was no more than a couple hundred yards (if that) from the end of
the runway. Another was on the VOR approach to MtPleasant where you
fly directly over the runway at 500 feet to the VOR to go missed on
27. When the instructor's voice went up an octave and he said and I
quote..."What that...Oh, ****! Pull UP, Pull UP! I went full power,
stood the Deb on end and did a push over to level off that left things
floating. He never would tell me how close we came but from his
actions I'd say probably no more than a few feet. BTW I did all of
that under the hood. I mentioned to the CFI that I figured had it
been really close he'd have taken over. He said he figured that I knew
the limits of the plane and would react quicker than he could even if
he could see. He was right though, The urgency (I couldeven feel him
tense sitting next to me) told me that this should be a maximum effort
and not just a climb. Made me glad I use 120 for approaches instead
of 80 or 90 too:-))

Neither of these were things covered in primary training or the PTS.
They took a lot of time and practice getting to know the limits of
the Deb.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

I agree. I had to do 60 degree banked turns for my Private as well.

--
Dudley Henriques

"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
:

On Mar 12, 6:05 pm, "Owner" wrote:
"Ken S. Tucker" wrote in
messagenews:1c376b6c-0279-4781-b126-068490aa8201
@s13g2000prd.googlegro
ups.com...



On Mar 12, 12:31 pm, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:
Ken S. Tucker wrote:
and as it turned
out the fella was gov qualified to license me,
which he did.
Ken

Which one is you?

Total Names found for KEN TUCKER is 22.

KENNETH CARDEN TUCKER KENNETH EDWARD TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER KENDALL JOHN TUCKER
KENNETH EDWARD TUCKER KENNETH RAY TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER KENNETH THOMAS TUCKER
KENNETH RICHARD TUCKER KENNETH DALE TUCKER
KENNETH E TUCKER KENNETH J TUCKER
KENNETH JOHN TUCKER KENT HOWARD TUCKER
KENNETH W TUCKER KENNETH WAYNE TUCKER
KENT DAVID TUCKER KENT LEE TUCKER
KENNETH ROYAL TUCKER KENNETH CLAYTON TUCKER
KENNETH STEVEN TUCKER KENNETH HAROLD TUCKER

LOL, thank you for your interest in me.
I'm afraid I cannot post my license number
off my old paper license for security reasons,
and not my Mensa number either, or social
security number, CIA file etc. ,
it's all classified.

Yes, your psychologist did say all your information is classified,
but I thought that was due to doctor/patient privileges

u1= -sin H sin P cos R + cos H sin R
u2 = cos H sin P cos R - sin H sin R
u3 = cos P cos R
Unit vector u is up, H is Heading, R is Roll, P is Pitch.

Vectors A = G+L+T+D
A is net acceleration, Gravity, Lift, Thrust, Drag.
G = -1k.

Is any of that familiar?


Looks like it's prolly the formula for crack.



If so, are the components of u correct?
I'm also a student of aerodynamics.

Bwawhahwhawhahwhahwhhahwhahwhahwhahhwahhwahwhahwha hhw!

Bertie