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#31
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Dudley Henriques wrote in
: Bob F. wrote: That's also an interesting question. I don't know what your experience or training is, with respect, but in an airliner, the last time the PF has his hand on the throttle is at V1 at which point you remove your hand off the throttle and place it, now both of your hands, on the yoke. It's not until much later into the flight that the PF will ever touch the throttle again. All commands are directed to the PNF to do. This is a curious ritual on take off, and varies slightly by airline manual. Here's how it goes. At stop position on the runway, the PF places his hand on the throttles, advances them part way to see that all engines are coming alive with roughly the same power and then says to the PNF, "Set Take Off Thrust" at which point the PNF has his hand(s) over the PF's hand and pushed the throttle to the predefined calculated power setting. The PF does NOT look at the settings and is concentrating on the take off. The PNF will concentrate on engine settings and will make very fine settings until V1. The PNF is also watching other controls and will call out any anomalies to the PF. He will not take action by himself. The PNF will call out a cross check at 80 Kts and the PF will confirm (his AS is active and reading 80kts). The PNF will call out the V1 speed and the PF will pull his hand off the throttles, to the yoke. The reason for this is to show that the PF (Captain has command) and can abort before V1. Past V1, you take off no matter what. The PNF calls Vr and the PF rotates, and targets V2. The PNF calls positive rate, the PF says gear up and the PNF brings the gear up. The climb out is at V2 and the PNF calls 400 ft, The PF call for new specific power settings and flap settings, the PNF confirms and reduces power, makes the adjustment, and adjusts flaps. It goes quick. That's what happens below pattern. You can see the sequence is rigid and regimented and at no time is anyone doing anything out of sequence. The main part of the flight is also loaded with paperwork. A similar ritual is performed on approach and landing. One ritual that is not taught in GA that the 121 guys do, is the sterile cockpit rule. I'd also like to see more GA rules about getting everyone in the airplane when close to airports to look for traffic. This is no time for chit-chat. I also spent a lot of time at Moffet Field in their Human Factors center and I was also a member of RTCA identifying human factor problems, writing MOPS and setting standards. I worked on designing the Aviation Telecommunication Network around the world. This is a post ACARS II network. We never could figure out if you had a server on the ground and you were receiving a data file in say a laptop in your airplane, is that uploading or downloading? And a more serious problem...with enough laptops, can you receive enough bits to cause the airplane to go over gross? ;-) Too much rambling here. Did I give you a glimpse of the airline world? An excellent look indeed. Sounds like you've done some good work in the flight safety field. The airline industry I'm sure places the same importance on CRM as we do dealing with the high performance single pilot environment. The two venues of course are quite different, each with their own individual methods for optimizing safety in the cockpit environment; the airline aspect naturally having to deal with the added crew factor and the pros and cons of the implied interaction there. In a way, your environment is even more complicated than ours for this reason alone. We deal with the interactive relationship between the conscious and sub conscious as a single pilot attempts to deal with the extremely high multi-task environment we have in low altitude display flying where both the macro and micro aspects of this scenario can pile on causing over task. It's more complicated for your scenario I believe, because of the added factor of crew interaction where tasking and sequence responsibility have to be clearly defined. In our venue, throttle is considered as a prime control and as such requires the placement of the hand on that control during all operations at and below pattern altitude. It goes without saying that in handling high performance military type single engine airplanes where engine and aerodynamic factors at low altitudes can require instant power adjustment as a preemptive as well as a reactionary measure, that having the hand on the throttle is mandatory to satisfy the flight safety issue. I have carried this philosophy into my primary and aerobatic instruction as well and encourage all GA pilots flying single pilot to use this procedure. Yeah, rthere;s a few differences between flying the two as far as throttle goes. the autothrottle is king nowadays. It sets takeoff thrust instead of PNF ( actually the FE did it in every three crew airplane I've flown) but it's generally disengaged right after the thrust is set autmatically and just manitains the thrust postion. It can do the approach, but if you;'re hand flying it is generally verboten to use the autothrottle as you just have a mess if you do ( try controlling the speed with a nudge of pitch when the autothrottle is fighting you) but in fact, the hand on throttle thing is even more critical in a jet when on approach thna it is with a prop driven airplane. Swept wing airplanes are mostly less speed stable than straight wing airplanes. That is, the drag doesnt decrease nearly as much as it does when you lose a bit of speed, so the airplane is less inclined to seek it's original speed if you've lost or gained a bit. This means you have to be a bit more assertive with the thrust to keep your speed in line. This is exacerbated by the nature of jet thrust. When you slow down in a prop aircraft, the prop blades are naturally getting a better bite,. they have a slightly higher AoA ( yes, even constant speed props) and they tend to pull the airplane back to it's original speed. Not so mush with a jet. While tractive effort is increased if you lose a bit of speed, it's negligable compared to that which you get with a prop. having said all that, modern jet engines are all high bypass fans and really almost proppeler driven. Wings have significantly less sweep than they used to since manufacturers are using other tricks to get a decent speed out of them, so the 757 or the 737 NG is significantly easier to fly on approach than the old 727 was. And I've heard that the 707 required you to get up the day before in order to stay ahead of it! Bertie |
#33
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#34
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On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:13:53 -0400, Dudley Henriques wrote:
I used "Every good pilot must take off fine check" and "Every good pilot must land fine check" -- Dudley Henriques ???????? |
#35
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In article ,
Dudley Henriques wrote: Larry D. Cosby wrote: Hi, I was wondering what the acronym GUMPS stood on a landing checklist. Larry There are a few versions, but one widely used is; Gas,Undercarraige,Mixture,Prop, Safety Harness I always got confused whether G was Gas or Gear, so I started using STUMP: Seatbelts Tanks Undercarriage etc. rg |
#36
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On Mar 21, 6:08*pm, Dan wrote:
On Mar 21, 5:42 pm, "Bob F." wrote: Everyone knows the gear can't come up while taxiing anyway, no matter what you do with the switches. You have got to be kidding...? Or else flying a fixed gear. Dan Mc Theres no way the gear can retract while the plane's weight is on the gear. Even if the squat switch were to fail, the gear retraction motor is not going to be powerful enough to bring the gear up from underneath you. |
#37
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On Mar 22, 7:53 am, buttman wrote:
On Mar 21, 6:08 pm, Dan wrote: On Mar 21, 5:42 pm, "Bob F." wrote: Everyone knows the gear can't come up while taxiing anyway, no matter what you do with the switches. You have got to be kidding...? Or else flying a fixed gear. Dan Mc Theres no way the gear can retract while the plane's weight is on the gear. Even if the squat switch were to fail, the gear retraction motor is not going to be powerful enough to bring the gear up from underneath you. DOH! Right.. The problem isn't manifest while taxiing -- it's getting almost airborne and settling, as others have posted. |
#38
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Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
"Bob F." wrote in : Everyone knows the gear can't come up while taxiing anyway, no matter what you do with the switches. Though I knew some tit who used to pull the lever up at the start of the take off roll and rely on the prox switch on the gear to do the rest for him. Guess what? Prox switch, what is that . You raise the handle on my plane and the next sound you hear is the prop hitting the pavement. Even on planes with squat switches you want to make sure the switch is down before moving the aircraft. There's about three different "make sure the handle is down" before cranking. |
#39
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buttman wrote:
On Mar 21, 6:08 pm, Dan wrote: On Mar 21, 5:42 pm, "Bob F." wrote: Everyone knows the gear can't come up while taxiing anyway, no matter what you do with the switches. You have got to be kidding...? Or else flying a fixed gear. Dan Mc Theres no way the gear can retract while the plane's weight is on the gear. Even if the squat switch were to fail, the gear retraction motor is not going to be powerful enough to bring the gear up from underneath you. Negatory good buddy. Maybe not the mains, but a lot of planes can get the nose gear going up enough to hit the prop. Even the starter motor will cause the hydraulic pump to give enough pressure to pull the Navion nose gear up over center. And I've only seen one Navion with a squat switch interlock. |
#40
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On Mar 22, 8:41 am, Ron Natalie wrote:
Negatory good buddy. Maybe not the mains, but a lot of planes can get the nose gear going up enough to hit the prop. The Bonanza mains certainly won't (close inboard), but the nose gear -- might. I really never want to know. |
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