Attention US Standard Class Pilots

On Feb 9, 1:13*pm, jcarlyle wrote:
I’m still learning to be a contest pilot, so the proposed use of
handicaps in Standard Class is OK by me. And if pure handicapping
attracts more people to participate in Standard Class, great!

What puzzles me, though, is the use of pure handicapping being
proposed for Standard Class itself, but a fixed 2% distance bonus
being used when a Standard Class ship flies in 15m Class. The LS8,
D2b, and ASW-28 have a 0.915 handicap, while an ASW-27 has a 0.880
handicap and a V2c and a LS10 have a 0.885 handicap. This is a 3% to
3.5% difference, not 2%. And I think that a LS4 and a SZD55 would also
just get 2%, just like the top of the line Standard Class ships do.

Why not use the correct handicap when fielding a mixed FAI class at a
US contest?

-John

Hi John,
The 2% adjustments have been dropped.
See page 3 of http://www.ssa.org/files/member/2012...mmary%20v4.pdf
QT

John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Feb 9, 1:13 pm, jcarlyle wrote:
I’m still learning to be a contest pilot, so the proposed use of
handicaps in Standard Class is OK by me. And if pure handicapping
attracts more people to participate in Standard Class, great!

What puzzles me, though, is the use of pure handicapping being
proposed for Standard Class itself, but a fixed 2% distance bonus
being used when a Standard Class ship flies in 15m Class. The LS8,
D2b, and ASW-28 have a 0.915 handicap, while an ASW-27 has a 0.880
handicap and a V2c and a LS10 have a 0.885 handicap. This is a 3% to
3.5% difference, not 2%. And I think that a LS4 and a SZD55 would also
just get 2%, just like the top of the line Standard Class ships do.

Why not use the correct handicap when fielding a mixed FAI class at a
US contest?

-John

Hi John,
The 2% adjustments have been dropped.
See page 3 of http://www.ssa.org/files/member/2012...mmary%20v4.pdf
QT

Thanks, QT, I obviously didn't see that document! I'll be sure to
download the 2012 US contest rules when they're released.

-John

On Feb 9, 2:19*pm, jcarlyle wrote:
John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Feb 9, 1:13 pm, jcarlyle wrote:
I’m still learning to be a contest pilot, so the proposed use of
handicaps in Standard Class is OK by me. And if pure handicapping
attracts more people to participate in Standard Class, great!

What puzzles me, though, is the use of pure handicapping being
proposed for Standard Class itself, but a fixed 2% distance bonus
being used when a Standard Class ship flies in 15m Class. The LS8,
D2b, and ASW-28 have a 0.915 handicap, while an ASW-27 has a 0.880
handicap and a V2c and a LS10 have a 0.885 handicap. This is a 3% to
3.5% difference, not 2%. And I think that a LS4 and a SZD55 would also
just get 2%, just like the top of the line Standard Class ships do.

Why not use the correct handicap when fielding a mixed FAI class at a
US contest?

-John

Hi John,
The 2% adjustments have been dropped.
See page 3 ofhttp://www.ssa.org/files/member/2012%20Rules%20Changes%20Summary%20v4...
QT

Thanks, QT, I obviously didn't see that document! I'll be sure to
download the 2012 US contest rules when they're released.

-John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They are approved as of last Saturday
UH

Hank,

I think there is a need to attrack more pilots to fly Std. Class
Nationals. Ideas to include others are a great step forward.

Tim Hanke
Discus 2ax



On Feb 8, 9:38*am, wrote:
The US competition Rules Committee is considering doing a one time
test of limited handicapping in the Standard Class at the 2012
nationals in Montegue.
This would be done under a waiver.
The objective is to try to improve participation and determine if this
is an effective means of doing so.
All conforming Std gliders may compete as usual. Std class gliders
only.
US handicap list will be used to handicap gliders with a maximum
adjustment of 3 1/2%.
This range is .915 to .950.
Gliders such as Discus, ASW-24, DG300, and LS-4 would get full
adjustment relative to current .915 gliders such as '28, Discus 2,
LS-8.
Gliders with numerical *handicaps above .950 get maximum of 3 1/2%
adjustment.
We have done limited informal polling and have good acceptance among
those we have talked to.
We would like input from other Standard class pilots who may be
affected.
Please feel free to comment here and/or directly to me.
UH
US RC Chair

wrote:
On Feb 9, 2:19 pm, jcarlyle wrote:
John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Feb 9, 1:13 pm, jcarlyle wrote:
I’m still learning to be a contest pilot, so the proposed use of
handicaps in Standard Class is OK by me. And if pure handicapping
attracts more people to participate in Standard Class, great!

What puzzles me, though, is the use of pure handicapping being
proposed for Standard Class itself, but a fixed 2% distance bonus
being used when a Standard Class ship flies in 15m Class. The LS8,
D2b, and ASW-28 have a 0.915 handicap, while an ASW-27 has a 0.880
handicap and a V2c and a LS10 have a 0.885 handicap. This is a 3% to
3.5% difference, not 2%. And I think that a LS4 and a SZD55 would also
just get 2%, just like the top of the line Standard Class ships do.

Why not use the correct handicap when fielding a mixed FAI class at a
US contest?

-John

Hi John,
The 2% adjustments have been dropped.
See page 3 ofhttp://www.ssa.org/files/member/2012%20Rules%20Changes%20Summary%20v4...
QT

Thanks, QT, I obviously didn't see that document! I'll be sure to
download the 2012 US contest rules when they're released.

-John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They are approved as of last Saturday
UH

OK, but one cannot download them at the SSA site. SSA says Mar 1.
Perhaps QT will give us a heads-up again this year when we can
retrieve them?

-John

On Feb 9, 3:34*pm, jcarlyle wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 9, 2:19 pm, jcarlyle wrote:
John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Feb 9, 1:13 pm, jcarlyle wrote:
I’m still learning to be a contest pilot, so the proposed use of
handicaps in Standard Class is OK by me. And if pure handicapping
attracts more people to participate in Standard Class, great!

What puzzles me, though, is the use of pure handicapping being
proposed for Standard Class itself, but a fixed 2% distance bonus
being used when a Standard Class ship flies in 15m Class. The LS8,
D2b, and ASW-28 have a 0.915 handicap, while an ASW-27 has a 0.880
handicap and a V2c and a LS10 have a 0.885 handicap. This is a 3% to
3.5% difference, not 2%. And I think that a LS4 and a SZD55 would also
just get 2%, just like the top of the line Standard Class ships do.

Why not use the correct handicap when fielding a mixed FAI class at a
US contest?

-John

Hi John,
The 2% adjustments have been dropped.
See page 3 ofhttp://www.ssa.org/files/member/2012%20Rules%20Changes%20Summary%20v4...
QT

Thanks, QT, I obviously didn't see that document! I'll be sure to
download the 2012 US contest rules when they're released.

-John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They are approved as of last Saturday
UH

OK, but one cannot download them at the SSA site. SSA says Mar 1.
Perhaps QT will give us a heads-up again this year when we can
retrieve them?

-John

I'll do my best to get them finished and posted before then.
QT

On Feb 9, 3:34*pm, jcarlyle wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 9, 2:19 pm, jcarlyle wrote:
John Godfrey (QT) wrote:
On Feb 9, 1:13 pm, jcarlyle wrote:
I’m still learning to be a contest pilot, so the proposed use of
handicaps in Standard Class is OK by me. And if pure handicapping
attracts more people to participate in Standard Class, great!

What puzzles me, though, is the use of pure handicapping being
proposed for Standard Class itself, but a fixed 2% distance bonus
being used when a Standard Class ship flies in 15m Class. The LS8,
D2b, and ASW-28 have a 0.915 handicap, while an ASW-27 has a 0.880
handicap and a V2c and a LS10 have a 0.885 handicap. This is a 3% to
3.5% difference, not 2%. And I think that a LS4 and a SZD55 would also
just get 2%, just like the top of the line Standard Class ships do.

Why not use the correct handicap when fielding a mixed FAI class at a
US contest?

-John

Hi John,
The 2% adjustments have been dropped.
See page 3 ofhttp://www.ssa.org/files/member/2012%20Rules%20Changes%20Summary%20v4...
QT

Thanks, QT, I obviously didn't see that document! I'll be sure to
download the 2012 US contest rules when they're released.

-John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They are approved as of last Saturday
UH

OK, but one cannot download them at the SSA site. SSA says Mar 1.
Perhaps QT will give us a heads-up again this year when we can
retrieve them?

-John- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Read proposed rules doc. for information. It was approved as proposed
and has explanations.
UH

The problem with glider racing has been technology improving the
product, making anything less than the latest (most expensive) glider
uncompetitive. This has limited the field to those who have the money
and desire to always have the best, or in some cases the glider with
the highest wing loading.

The Seniors contest proves it can be done. It is over-subscribed and
everyone (over 55) is welcome - bring what you got, (no water
ballast, 20 meter limit) and you fly with a handicap that permits
anyone to be able to win.

The Sports class tries to do this, however, span / wing loading wins.

Sports Class handicaps combined with span-limited contests might
attract many more pilots because they would actually have a realistic
chance to win.

Tom Knauff

On Feb 10, 7:42*am, Tom wrote:
The problem with glider racing has been technology improving the
product, making anything less than the latest (most expensive) glider
uncompetitive. This has limited the field to those who have the money
and desire to always have the best, or in some cases the glider with
the highest wing loading.

The Seniors contest proves it can be done. *It is over-subscribed and
everyone (over 55) *is welcome - bring what you got, (no water
ballast, 20 meter limit) and you fly with a handicap that permits
anyone to be able to win.

The Sports class tries to do this, however, span / wing loading wins.

Sports Class handicaps combined with span-limited contests might
attract many more pilots because they would actually have a realistic
chance to win.

Tom Knauff

Sports class contests (at the Regional level this year) can have
multiple sports rules classes organized by handicap, pilot experience
and other ideas. From the2012 rule changes document on the SSA web
site:

5.7 Competition Classes
5.7.1 The gliders eligible to compete are described in Rule 6.12.
5.7.2 A competition can include more than one handicapped class
5.7.2.1 Entries to a competition class can be restricted based on
criteria specified by the contest organizers on the application for
sanction form. Possible criteria include (but are not limited to)
maximum wingspan or a handicap range (or a combination).
5.7.2.2 The handicap ranges of competition classes may overlap.
5.7.2.3 Competition classes can be labeled, promoted and tasked to
appeal to pilots by skill level rather than or in addition to
limitation on gliders.

QT

Sports class contests (at the Regional level this year) can have
multiple sports rules classes organized by handicap, pilot experience
and other ideas. From the2012 rule changes document on the SSA web
site:

5.7 Competition Classes
5.7.1 The gliders eligible to compete are described in Rule 6.12.
5.7.2 A competition can include more than one handicapped class
5.7.2.1 Entries to a competition class can be restricted based on
criteria specified by the contest organizers on the application for
sanction form. Possible criteria include (but are not limited to)
maximum wingspan or a handicap range (or a combination).
5.7.2.2 The handicap ranges of competition classes may overlap.
5.7.2.3 Competition classes can be labeled, promoted and tasked to
appeal to pilots by skill level rather than or in addition to
limitation on gliders.

QT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As a technical qualification, these handicapped classes can be "FAI"
classes, run under the FAI regional rules, not just "sports" classes
run under sports rules. That means tasking, minimum time, water, and
general philosophy of FAI class races. Think of them as FAI classes
mixed with handicaps, or reaching out to older FAI gliders with
handicaps, not necessarily as "sports" classes. This also replaces the
idea of mixing two FAI classes with 2% handicaps. The standard
nationals proposal essentially implements the same idea at nationals.

You can also have mulitple "sports" classes, for example splitting by
glider performance or by pilot skill, and using the sports class
regional rules in each case.

John Cochrane