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Humbling! And one item just plain dumb! :-(



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 13th 04, 02:43 AM
Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo
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Don Parker wrote:
Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo wrote:

John Ward wrote:

Hi Doc,

Good points, and well made.

No he hasn't, for a while now.



Ahhhh, he'll show up! John...the cat on the monitor, still doing
'co-pilot' service? ;-)



Oh gawd - there's more than one?? (:-))


I think they write those SATA drive and RAID tech pieces for folks
with the proverbial MIT credential! I gave up [for now anyway...] and
returned forthwith to my IDE UDMA 133 drives!


Rumor has it the spec's or expect's for the SATA's are as trustworthy as if
uttered by Geo. W. himself!
In other words, if it sounds good, say it, you lie, I'll swear to
it...................

Cheers'n Beers Doc.. [_])
Don




Hey! RAS 'old-hands' now showing up! ;-) Hello Don...I think I might
have confused John with 'your' cat...that pic of the cat [pre-diet] on
the monitor might have been yours! Confirm ....if you please...

As for 'Greasy', well, I was first reminded, my retort wise, of the
words of 'Calvera' [Eli Wallach] in the classic 'Mag 7' flick...you
know..."Generosity! That was my first mistake! I leave these people
something extra and they hire these men to make trouble for me...me, a
man who wants no trouble!"

[suddenly...vexed and quizzical albeit from the same classic flick!]

Greasy [doing 'Calvera' ...] "What I don't understand is why a man like
you took the job [*passing out newbie material] in the first
place...c'mon why?"

Doc Tony: [doing 'Vic' ... Steve McQueen] "Well, Greasey-man, it's like
a fella' I once knew in El Paso...one day he just took off all his
clothes and jumped in a mess of cactus...I asked him the same
question...WHY?!"

Greasy: [still whizzed off!] "Annnnnnd?"

Doc Tony: [merely following script...]"He said it seemed like a good
idea at the time!"

;-) [*great flick, that!]

Anyway, that out of the way, back to SATA [*Serial ATA] drives and RAID.
The new motherboard I got [Soyo SY-P4VTP w/800FSB] also has two on-board
SATA connectors in addition to the normal UDMA 133 PCI/IDE pins but when
I hooked up the two SATA drives and had the BIOS open to the Win XP 'CD'
as the first drive to then hopefully get an O/S on one of the SATA
drives, the thing kept closing down with a message that the CD
containing the XP O/S "...could not find any IDE drives" and so it shut
down forthwith! So HOW does one get an O/S on a SATA drive. I got a
great deal on that WD740 'Raptor' '10K' RPM 74 gig SATA and it now sits
here because I can't get the thing to load an O/S! Translation: Dunno
how! IDE stuff, I decently savvy after many years 'under the hood' and
tinkering since the days of the now ancient X286 stuff but today's SATA
drives and RAID array fiddlings ...whew! :-(

And many websites seem to de facto 'assume' that when you get there you
already savvy a good deal about things to know about SATA and RAID and
unfortunately they proceed from that premise! Result...at least for
me...lost rather quickly! Ahhhh...hopefully comes a friendly email with
some needed SATA/RAID O/S hook-up advice [hint!]. Must say though that
for all the sims, the IDE drives have done great service over the years
but I'm hearing that SATA drives will be the 'wave of the future' and
that '150' SATA transfer rate over the present max 133 UDMA drives is
just the SATA tip of the iceberg...so they say anyway.

Doc Tony
;-)


[from afar...]

John Ward [-VERY serious-like...] "Can you fly this plane and land it?"

Remember that one, Don, and who was in RAS that had some 10 'cooler'
fans in their system! Talk about the flick 'AIRPLANE' indeed! Count 'em,
10 mini props so to speak! CPU, PS and video card 'not' included in the
tally mind you! ;-)

  #12  
Old April 13th 04, 05:32 AM
Peter Duniho
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message
...
[...]
And many websites seem to de facto 'assume' that when you get there you
already savvy a good deal about things to know about SATA and RAID and
unfortunately they proceed from that premise!


As do the motherboard manufacturers.

Having run into a similar problem a year ago, when I put together my first
SATA-equipped PC, maybe my experience will be helpful. On the motherboard,
which did NOT have any SCSI controller, the BIOS settings still referred to
a SCSI controller. Turns out, anywhere it said "SCSI", it actually means
SATA.

So, you may have to enable your "SCSI" controller somewhere, probably in the
XP setup. When XP asks if you have any additional drivers to install, tell
it you do, and then you should have drivers that came with the motherboard
on a CD you can put in when XP asks you to. Alternatively, there may be
something in your BIOS settings to enable the SATA controller and make it
appear as an IDE controller to Windows (since it is basically just a
different kind of IDE controller).

Same thing for booting...you may have to tell the BIOS to boot from the
"SCSI" controller to get it to boot from the SATA drive.

As the motherboard manufacturers update their BIOS, this stuff should be
easier. For now, we're definitely in that "transition" phase. Getting
things to work will take equal measures of plain old fiddling around and
trying to figure out what shortcuts the hardware manufacturers have taken to
get SATA enabled and working.

Pete


  #13  
Old April 13th 04, 06:42 PM
Al Denelsbeck
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in
:

snipped, sacrilege I know

Hey, has Al B. been around? The helo instructions still beckon! You
know my luck with those egg beaters...to
wit...whoop,whoop,whoop...CRASH...[RESET] Whoop,whoop,whoop....CRASH!

Doc Tony
;-)



Al "B" I'm not familiar with, but if I see him I'll send him your way
;-)

Meanwhile, the other Al has pretty much left simming behind, or been
left behind by it since he refuses to play Microsoft's Upgrade Roulette -
which new version of MS software will no longer run on your old machine?
"All of them!"

I think he lurks here from time to time, just checking it out, but
finds a lot of discussion is now on hardware. Now, Doc's posts have always
been that way, but at the same time he has a tremendous amount of fun with
his posts too, so he's forgiven handily.

But yes, certain names not seen in a long time can probably bring
that other Al out of the woodwork. Probably won't have much to contribute,
and in fact only recently fired up the sim again for some practice (yes,
indeed, in those unstable eggbeaters). But he still has a fine enough touch
for flying through hangars in an Aero L-39 Albatross, too...

;-)


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain
  #14  
Old April 14th 04, 12:39 AM
Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Al Denelsbeck wrote:
"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in
:

snipped, sacrilege I know


Hey, has Al B. been around? The helo instructions still beckon! You
know my luck with those egg beaters...to
wit...whoop,whoop,whoop...CRASH...[RESET] Whoop,whoop,whoop....CRASH!

Doc Tony
;-)




Al "B" I'm not familiar with, but if I see him I'll send him your way
;-)

Meanwhile, the other Al has pretty much left simming behind, or been
left behind by it since he refuses to play Microsoft's Upgrade Roulette -
which new version of MS software will no longer run on your old machine?
"All of them!"

I think he lurks here from time to time, just checking it out, but
finds a lot of discussion is now on hardware. Now, Doc's posts have always
been that way, but at the same time he has a tremendous amount of fun with
his posts too, so he's forgiven handily.

But yes, certain names not seen in a long time can probably bring
that other Al out of the woodwork. Probably won't have much to contribute,
and in fact only recently fired up the sim again for some practice (yes,
indeed, in those unstable eggbeaters). But he still has a fine enough touch
for flying through hangars in an Aero L-39 Albatross, too...

;-)


- Al.







Allll! And we'll quickly make that Al 'D' ! Mea culpa! Mea maxima culpa!

[suddenly!]

Greasy: "How the $##$# does some 'pagan agnostic' [!] like that Doc Tony
character savvy Latin I wanna' know!"

Fr. Bill [tongue in cheek] : "Agnostics are not necessarily dumb, Mr. G,
.... merely lost!"

;-) [*And trusting mightily in Fr. Bill's decent sparks [read: well
working neurons] and his known sense of humor!]

Anyway, AL! I've missed you, buddy, and I appreciated your comments [and
various others in both the RAS and RAP av groups some months back when
my Dad passed and I did the 'Final Flight' post...ohhh yes...many real
McCoy pilots here from RAP [rec.av.piloting]...you, Pete Duniho [who
I'll respond to as well...and the others who also enjoy flight sims and
their known 'adjunctive' value to the real thing [ A Sudden Voice!
'There Doc goes again!']. Where I came up with Al B...dunno...could be
another one of the sim and/or real McCoy gang!

Hey Al---the helo 'Bluesmobile' --ring a bell? It should ... since you
designed it and I still marvel at your helo stuff [and antics] both sim
and real deal! But then what can be said about a man who felt that
taking off from Meigs with a fully loaded albeit vintage B-36 '6 turnin'
and 4 burnin' "Peacemaker" was 'doable' if one had faith in both pilot
and machine! It was, I believe, at 'that' point where Fr. Bill made with
the ad hoc and prior to your attempt .... 'De Profundis' ! [*'Out of the
depths' ].

More later.

Doc Tony
;-)

  #15  
Old April 14th 04, 01:08 AM
Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Peter Duniho wrote:
"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message
...

[...]
And many websites seem to de facto 'assume' that when you get there you
already savvy a good deal about things to know about SATA and RAID and
unfortunately they proceed from that premise!



As do the motherboard manufacturers.

Having run into a similar problem a year ago, when I put together my first
SATA-equipped PC, maybe my experience will be helpful. On the motherboard,
which did NOT have any SCSI controller, the BIOS settings still referred to
a SCSI controller. Turns out, anywhere it said "SCSI", it actually means
SATA.

So, you may have to enable your "SCSI" controller somewhere, probably in the
XP setup. When XP asks if you have any additional drivers to install, tell
it you do, and then you should have drivers that came with the motherboard
on a CD you can put in when XP asks you to. Alternatively, there may be
something in your BIOS settings to enable the SATA controller and make it
appear as an IDE controller to Windows (since it is basically just a
different kind of IDE controller).

Same thing for booting...you may have to tell the BIOS to boot from the
"SCSI" controller to get it to boot from the SATA drive.

As the motherboard manufacturers update their BIOS, this stuff should be
easier. For now, we're definitely in that "transition" phase. Getting
things to work will take equal measures of plain old fiddling around and
trying to figure out what shortcuts the hardware manufacturers have taken to
get SATA enabled and working.

Pete




Thank you, Pete. THAT was the key...SCSI as stand-in for SATA. Works!
Now for phase II ... deciding between RAID [which seems to be a
necessity when one gets into the SATA slots...dunno...but otherwise
Windows does not show the drives other than in a RAID array and this
program that popped up called 'VIA RAID' something or other...mind you,
Pete, this is all new to me so I'm sort of dabbling as I go but your
input was gold because the SCSI piece in fact got the machine to at
least recognize the drive! Much appreciated.

Agree about the motherboard thing. I enjoy like many others [not to
mention the economic advantages] of putting together their own machine
and have been tinkering for years although I make no claim whatsoever to
even coming close to a savvy tech but , like the sim hobby, there are
always folks willing to help and assist with their talent and tech savvy
.. Generally it's a fun deal tinkering 'under the hood' with the machine
but then they have to change things via 'progress' and so IDE appears to
be going the way of the 10 cent cup of java as SATA drives are the now
thing with more and more mb's having the slots just as, relating to the
sim hobby, the absence in the newer mb's of the gameport and so USB is
the thing...hence my movement into CH's USB yoke. Sidebar: Comes an
email...hey Doc...what do you mean prop and mixture foward!..I tried
that "on a jet" [sic!] and the thing just turned to the left! Ahhhh! And
here I thought I made it clear that the prop and mix 'forward' ONLY
applies to the prop planes and obviously 'not' the jets! Perhaps
'Calvera' was right! ;-)

Keep in touch, Pete. More than once in the RAP group, I used your VOR
comments on the C-152/172 and some of the mystery was broken! Thank
the stars for real-thing portable Garmin GPS backup!

Doc Tony

  #16  
Old April 14th 04, 01:40 AM
Peter Duniho
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message
...
Thank you, Pete. THAT was the key...SCSI as stand-in for SATA. Works!
Now for phase II ... deciding between RAID [which seems to be a
necessity when one gets into the SATA slots...dunno...but otherwise
Windows does not show the drives other than in a RAID array and this
program that popped up called 'VIA RAID' something or other...mind you,


You're welcome.

Your SATA is the same as your RAID controller. But that doesn't necessarily
mean you have to create a RAID array to get things working. It just means
you need to install the appropriate drivers for that controller so that
Windows can talk to it. It will work fine as a plain-vanilla disk
controller too.

In my own case, I didn't take the direct route, so I'm not really certain
what the direct route looks like. I had all the same problems you're
having now, and so wound up installing Windows onto the drive with the drive
attached to the IDE controller, rather than the SATA controller. (This was
before SATA drives were commonly available, and so the drives are actually
regular old-fashioned parallel ATA drives, with an extra adapter attached to
convert to SATA; a little kludgy, but it did allow me to move the drives
from one controller to the other as I worked things out).

It's almost certain that -- going along my indirect route -- I didn't have
to install the Windows drivers for the controller until after I had gotten
Windows itself installed and booting, working on the old IDE controller. So
in some respects, even though I had many iterations of "unplug the drive,
swap the cable, plug it back in", I did simplify the drive installation
aspect. Of course, with drives that are actually SATA-only, this isn't an
option. But if you have both connectors on the drives, it would be. Just
do all the setup (including installing the drivers for the SATA controller)
with the drives attached to the old IDE controller. Then move everything
over when you're done.

By the way, "VIA RAID" makes it sound to me like you've got a SATA/RAID
controller that uses a chipset manufacturered by the VIA company. They are
well-known for their various motherboard components, so this isn't really a
news flash or anything I guess. Just something to keep in mind when you're
doing the CD shuffle, looking for the one with the controller drivers.

Good luck!

Pete


  #17  
Old April 14th 04, 02:25 AM
Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Peter Duniho wrote:
"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message
...

Thank you, Pete. THAT was the key...SCSI as stand-in for SATA. Works!
Now for phase II ... deciding between RAID [which seems to be a
necessity when one gets into the SATA slots...dunno...but otherwise
Windows does not show the drives other than in a RAID array and this
program that popped up called 'VIA RAID' something or other...mind you,



You're welcome.

Your SATA is the same as your RAID controller. But that doesn't necessarily
mean you have to create a RAID array to get things working. It just means
you need to install the appropriate drivers for that controller so that
Windows can talk to it. It will work fine as a plain-vanilla disk
controller too.

In my own case, I didn't take the direct route, so I'm not really certain
what the direct route looks like. I had all the same problems you're
having now, and so wound up installing Windows onto the drive with the drive
attached to the IDE controller, rather than the SATA controller. (This was
before SATA drives were commonly available, and so the drives are actually
regular old-fashioned parallel ATA drives, with an extra adapter attached to
convert to SATA; a little kludgy, but it did allow me to move the drives
from one controller to the other as I worked things out).

It's almost certain that -- going along my indirect route -- I didn't have
to install the Windows drivers for the controller until after I had gotten
Windows itself installed and booting, working on the old IDE controller. So
in some respects, even though I had many iterations of "unplug the drive,
swap the cable, plug it back in", I did simplify the drive installation
aspect. Of course, with drives that are actually SATA-only, this isn't an
option. But if you have both connectors on the drives, it would be. Just
do all the setup (including installing the drivers for the SATA controller)
with the drives attached to the old IDE controller. Then move everything
over when you're done.

By the way, "VIA RAID" makes it sound to me like you've got a SATA/RAID
controller that uses a chipset manufacturered by the VIA company. They are
well-known for their various motherboard components, so this isn't really a
news flash or anything I guess. Just something to keep in mind when you're
doing the CD shuffle, looking for the one with the controller drivers.

Good luck!

Pete



Golden stuff, Pete! Where were you last weekend when I attempted all
this SATA/RAID business? ;-)

With this info, I'll give it another whirl sometime this week and let
you know how it flies...so to speak.

Pete..let me stretch your good indulgences here if I may, and I'll even
relate this to the sims so the assembled don't think I'm too off-topic
with all the machine talk...it's a clear bet that the majority of folks
have their flight sims located on various brands and speeds of 'IDE'
drives because, hey, IDE is still the reigning type of drive but what
about these add-on gizmos like that High Point Tech company "RocketHead
[sic] 100" that plugs into the 40 pin IDE drive but then the other side
of the gizmo makes it possible to connect [with a SATA data cable]
--and-- using Legacy power -- standard Molex 4 prong cable] via another
adapter on the thing into the SATA slot. Is this, more or less, simply a
means to get the IDE drive onto the SATA slots and 'benefit' from that
SATA data cable? I guess what I'm asking is this: If folks don't want
the hassle of moving all their sims and systems to SATA drives and wish
to retain their main IDE drive, is there any 'speed' advantage to going
the IDE to SATA adapter where data now flows through a SATA data cable
versus the usual UDMA ribbon cable --or-- is this adapter business
merely a means to use IDE's on a SATA slot and thus have less data
ribbon clutter but a [for example] UDMA 133 IDE drive will 'not' have
any speed advantage [and thus a smoother sim] being connected to SATA
controllers nor the use of a SATA data cable..in effect..a 133 UDMA will
never go any faster then its rated UDMA rating???

Thanks again, Pete.

Doc Tony

  #18  
Old April 14th 04, 02:52 AM
Peter Duniho
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in message
...
Golden stuff, Pete! Where were you last weekend when I attempted all
this SATA/RAID business? ;-)


Sorry...I must've failed to notice the Bat Signal. I'll try to keep a
better eye out next time.

[...] but what
about these add-on gizmos like that High Point Tech company "RocketHead
[sic] 100" that plugs into the 40 pin IDE drive but then the other side
of the gizmo makes it possible to connect [with a SATA data cable]
--and-- using Legacy power -- standard Molex 4 prong cable] via another
adapter on the thing into the SATA slot. Is this, more or less, simply a
means to get the IDE drive onto the SATA slots and 'benefit' from that
SATA data cable?


That's the kind of adapter to which I referred, that I used to install
regular IDE drives on my SATA controller.

As for why one would do that...

I looked at some benchmarks, and it appeared that the SATA controller
potentially had a lower CPU utilization than the IDE controller, for
high-bandwidth disk access. In my case, I'm dealing with video editing
which involves moving huge amounts of data around, often at the same time
the CPU is trying to process that data. For games, you are unlikely to be
using the disk for significant periods of time during high-CPU-use
activities, so it probably wouldn't matter in that respect.

As far as the drive access speed itself goes, as it appears you've already
surmised there's no benefit to using the faster controller if the disk can't
keep up. At this point, no consumer-level drives can even exceed the older
ATA 133 speeds, never mind the bandwidth of a SATA controller, so putting a
drive on the SATA controller won't help in that respect. In the future,
perhaps consumer level drives will be fast enough to warrant using an
adapter, but by then I'd guess SATA would be standard issue connectors on
all drives anyway.

Your guess regarding the cable type is probably the most common reason to
put an IDE drive on a SATA controller using one of those adapters. Not only
is the "clutter factor" reduced, but airflow through the case is MUCH
better, which is very important for those overclocked, maxed-out gaming
machines many people like to play their games on.

In addition to the CPU-utilization advantage (which, by the way, I've found
no conclusive evidence to support, as it turns out...I went back to the
benchmarks later and discovered that they had been updated, and the
advantage was not so pronounced), another advantage to using an adapter is
that IDE drives are still easier to find, and it's a way to put six drives
into a box that would otherwise only fit four (four on the IDE controller,
plus another two on the SATA controller...or even more if the controller has
the extra connections).

Finally, perhaps the most interesting advantage for many applications
(though not flight simulators) is the question of what happens when you have
two disk drives plus an optical drive (CD or DVD). As it turns out, for a
given IDE controller, the data rate on the cable is limited to the slowest
device on the cable. So putting a hard disk on the same cable as an optical
drive can really slow the hard disk down, as the IDE controller reverts to
the older ATA66 or even ATA33 standard for the optical drive. On the other
hand, if you are trying to copy large amounts of data from one disk to
another (as is often the case when dealing with video editing), having both
hard disks on the same cable creates a lot of contention between the two
drives, as they both try to share the same wires running to the computer.

So, a solution to that is to give the optical drive(s) their own IDE
controller, and give each hard disk their own IDE or SATA controller. Since
pretty much every motherboard comes with only two IDE controllers, then if
you also have SATA, you can dedicate a data channel to each storage device
by putting one or more on the SATA controller. With the standard two IDE
controllers, plus a two-channel SATA controller, you can have three disks
each on their own controller (two SATA and one IDE), along with up to two
optical drives (both on the same IDE controller, one as master and one as
slave), without having any of the storage devices interfering with the
others (well, you still get bottlenecks closer to the CPU, and the two
optical drives still have to share, but those are less significant issues).

I guess in the end, even where there's a potential speed improvement, most
users aren't doing the kinds of things where they'd notice the difference.
But there are still a few valid reasons for adapting an old IDE drive to a
new SATA controller, if you think you might notice the difference, or you
just want to rationalize (most of my computer hardware was rationalized,
rather than justified ). Just don't pay too much for one of those
adapters!

Pete


  #19  
Old April 15th 04, 03:32 AM
Al Denelsbeck
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in
:


Allll! And we'll quickly make that Al 'D' ! Mea culpa! Mea maxima
culpa!


Not a problem. I mean, c'mon, look at that name! It's been mangled by
everyone who ever hears it, and these are people who just heard me
pronounce it. There's a reason I don't market my work under it... ;-)


[suddenly!]

Greasy: "How the $##$# does some 'pagan agnostic' [!] like that Doc
Tony character savvy Latin I wanna' know!"

Fr. Bill [tongue in cheek] : "Agnostics are not necessarily dumb, Mr.
G, ... merely lost!"


Agnosticism?!?!? What kind of approach is that? Of *course* you're
lost - atheism is the only way! ;-)


;-) [*And trusting mightily in Fr. Bill's decent sparks [read: well
working neurons] and his known sense of humor!]

Anyway, AL! I've missed you, buddy, and I appreciated your comments
[and various others in both the RAS and RAP av groups some months back
when my Dad passed and I did the 'Final Flight' post...ohhh yes...many
real McCoy pilots here from RAP [rec.av.piloting]...you, Pete Duniho
[who I'll respond to as well...and the others who also enjoy flight
sims and their known 'adjunctive' value to the real thing [ A Sudden
Voice! 'There Doc goes again!']. Where I came up with Al
B...dunno...could be another one of the sim and/or real McCoy gang!


Whoops! Ah, I suspect you really *are* thinking of Al B., somewhere.
No 'real world' pilot here, though I've been in instruction a couple of
times, just couldn't keep money and time auto-coordinated. As they (who?)
say, "I'm not a pilot, but I play one on PC".

Missed you too, amigo, and was wondering what happened. Glad to see
you back and in previous form. Gonna make me start hanging out here again.
I might also suggest you check out alt.binaries.pictures.aviation from time
to time, too, warning you right now it's addictive. But recently there's
been a few posts of your six-n-four there, including the prototype without
the four.


Hey Al---the helo 'Bluesmobile' --ring a bell? It should ... since you
designed it and I still marvel at your helo stuff [and antics] both
sim and real deal! But then what can be said about a man who felt that
taking off from Meigs with a fully loaded albeit vintage B-36 '6
turnin' and 4 burnin' "Peacemaker" was 'doable' if one had faith in
both pilot and machine! It was, I believe, at 'that' point where Fr.
Bill made with the ad hoc and prior to your attempt .... 'De
Profundis' ! [*'Out of the depths' ].


You'd be interested in knowing that the Bluesmobile still resides on
my machine too, as my agile little taxiway-hopper. A little sensitive, but
not squirrelly. 'Course, I have a few other custom repaints too...

I think I mentioned last time about doing the old C-130 carrier
landings, quite amusing. Also found out recently that, due to body and
landing gear designs, the B-52 doesn't actually rotate on takeoff, and
can't. The wing is mounted at a positive angle-of-attack, and the pilot
merely builds speed until lift is achieved while held level. Haven't found
a sim model yet that duplicates that (we won't go into what version FS I'm
using...). But I admit to not trying it out of Meigs ;-)

Oh, and scenery woes. Found a couple of detailed packages for my
stomping grounds here in Florida, but they're mutually exclusive due to
buffer limits. Grrrrrr! Real shame, because I like them both and fly
between them often.

But other things have been keeping me busier too, so simming comes in
only occasionally. What I'm doing admitting this on a simming newsgroup is
anybody's guess...

So in closing, I'll leave you with the immortal words of our fearless
leader: "Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?"


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain
  #20  
Old April 15th 04, 04:16 AM
John Ward
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Hi Al,

Fascinating, and great to see The Doc's "overcoming it" (I don't say
that lightly, Doc' !!).

Have you two guys ever had a squizz at alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim?

Regards,
John
"Al Denelsbeck" wrote in message
. 6...
"Dr. Anthony J. Lomenzo" wrote in
:


Allll! And we'll quickly make that Al 'D' ! Mea culpa! Mea maxima
culpa!


Not a problem. I mean, c'mon, look at that name! It's been mangled by
everyone who ever hears it, and these are people who just heard me
pronounce it. There's a reason I don't market my work under it... ;-)


[suddenly!]

Greasy: "How the $##$# does some 'pagan agnostic' [!] like that Doc
Tony character savvy Latin I wanna' know!"

Fr. Bill [tongue in cheek] : "Agnostics are not necessarily dumb, Mr.
G, ... merely lost!"


Agnosticism?!?!? What kind of approach is that? Of *course* you're
lost - atheism is the only way! ;-)


;-) [*And trusting mightily in Fr. Bill's decent sparks [read: well
working neurons] and his known sense of humor!]

Anyway, AL! I've missed you, buddy, and I appreciated your comments
[and various others in both the RAS and RAP av groups some months back
when my Dad passed and I did the 'Final Flight' post...ohhh yes...many
real McCoy pilots here from RAP [rec.av.piloting]...you, Pete Duniho
[who I'll respond to as well...and the others who also enjoy flight
sims and their known 'adjunctive' value to the real thing [ A Sudden
Voice! 'There Doc goes again!']. Where I came up with Al
B...dunno...could be another one of the sim and/or real McCoy gang!


Whoops! Ah, I suspect you really *are* thinking of Al B., somewhere.
No 'real world' pilot here, though I've been in instruction a couple of
times, just couldn't keep money and time auto-coordinated. As they (who?)
say, "I'm not a pilot, but I play one on PC".

Missed you too, amigo, and was wondering what happened. Glad to see
you back and in previous form. Gonna make me start hanging out here again.
I might also suggest you check out alt.binaries.pictures.aviation from

time
to time, too, warning you right now it's addictive. But recently there's
been a few posts of your six-n-four there, including the prototype without
the four.


Hey Al---the helo 'Bluesmobile' --ring a bell? It should ... since you
designed it and I still marvel at your helo stuff [and antics] both
sim and real deal! But then what can be said about a man who felt that
taking off from Meigs with a fully loaded albeit vintage B-36 '6
turnin' and 4 burnin' "Peacemaker" was 'doable' if one had faith in
both pilot and machine! It was, I believe, at 'that' point where Fr.
Bill made with the ad hoc and prior to your attempt .... 'De
Profundis' ! [*'Out of the depths' ].


You'd be interested in knowing that the Bluesmobile still resides on
my machine too, as my agile little taxiway-hopper. A little sensitive, but
not squirrelly. 'Course, I have a few other custom repaints too...

I think I mentioned last time about doing the old C-130 carrier
landings, quite amusing. Also found out recently that, due to body and
landing gear designs, the B-52 doesn't actually rotate on takeoff, and
can't. The wing is mounted at a positive angle-of-attack, and the pilot
merely builds speed until lift is achieved while held level. Haven't found
a sim model yet that duplicates that (we won't go into what version FS I'm
using...). But I admit to not trying it out of Meigs ;-)

Oh, and scenery woes. Found a couple of detailed packages for my
stomping grounds here in Florida, but they're mutually exclusive due to
buffer limits. Grrrrrr! Real shame, because I like them both and fly
between them often.

But other things have been keeping me busier too, so simming comes in
only occasionally. What I'm doing admitting this on a simming newsgroup is
anybody's guess...

So in closing, I'll leave you with the immortal words of our fearless
leader: "Joey, do you like movies about gladiators?"


- Al.

--
To reply, insert dash in address to separate G and I in the domain



 




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