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Grand Canyon overflight proposal



 
 
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  #31  
Old April 21st 06, 11:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Grand Canyon overflight proposal


RomeoMike wrote:
Meaning a place within the boundaries of the Grand Canyon National Park
from which the canyon itself is visible and where you are unlikely to
encounter anyone else, and if you did encounter another person it would
be easy to move off away from him and enjoy solitude. I never said it
had to be popular in the sense of a lot of people being there. I just
said there are places in the Grand Canyon that are beautiful, quiet and
without people. Is that plain enough?




I can agree with your statement completely. As a Boy scout close on
to 20
years ago I hiked the Havasupai trail into the canyon several times.
AFAIK you
must obtain a permit from the Native Americans who live in th Supai
village in
the canyon. It's about an 11 mile hike and not exactly an easy one,
but if you are
looking for quiet, the need to obtain a permit restricts the number of
people hiking
this particular trail. Now, it has been a long time, but I honestly
don't remember
any offensive aircraft noise at all, but this may be due to
restrictions of overflight
of the Supai village (I'm not sure if these exist, just a thought) So
I guess the point
that I'm trying to make here is that there are places in the canyon to
get away from
all thre hustle bustle of the visitor's center type areas, you just
have to be serious
enough about it to do the research and planning necessary. And
fortunately (for those
looking for that peace and quiet) the average visitor to the canyon is
either too restriced
on their timetable or just too damn lazy to bother with all that
trouble.


Get yourself in the air no mattter how you get up there !
Wayne


  #32  
Old April 22nd 06, 12:12 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Grand Canyon overflight proposal

And I don't understand what the problem is. I've been part-way down
the canyon, and I saw and heard aircraft overhead. What's the big
deal?


"I've been in restaurants with smokers before. What's the big deal?"

The fact that a special interest group is trying to restrict our
freedoms...


Freedoms overlap and conflict. They are not absolute.

The overflight canyon experience should be a mandatory, "do before you
die" thing for EVERY American


Yanno, not everyone shares your love of being kept miles away from the
ground by nothing more than a blast of air and processed dinosaurs.

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #33  
Old April 22nd 06, 12:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Grand Canyon overflight proposal

No, I wasn't overlooking this issue. As a matter of fact
this would be the issue. Keeping the price high would
cut down the number of overhead visitors. Businesses would not go out
of business
because they don't have one currently.


??? Clearly, you've not seen the HUGE tour operators in Las Vegas,
whose main business is taking tourists on scenic flights over the
canyon.

You limit them to 2 days per week (or whatever) of flying rights, and
they won't survive. Pilots, handlers, ticket agents, etc., will be
thrown out of work, and hundreds (thousands?) of tourists will be
denied their flight of a lifetime every WEEK.

You know, in general we talk about promoting aviation on this group --
your comments seem quite out of step with this attitude.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


If you didn't limit the days or
time, everybody with 41 hours would be over the canyon every minute of
every day. Make it expensive, it's expensive go by boat, With boats
there are only so many permits per year and it works.
Lou


  #34  
Old April 22nd 06, 12:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Grand Canyon overflight proposal

("Marc J. Zeitlin" wrote)
As a long time pilot that has always loved airplanes and airplane noise,
and ALWAYS looks up when I hear an airplane overhead (and who works at
Scaled and is around planes all day, every day), the big deal is that it's
really nice to have peace and quiet sometimes, especially in a "natural"
setting. And that's only from a "people-centric" position.



You might enjoy the BWCA in Northern Minnesota.
[Boundary Waters Canoe Area]

http://www.bwcaw.org/

http://www.canoecountry.com/

http://www.boundarywaterscanoearea.com/

http://gorp.away.com/gorp/resource/u...a/mn_bound.htm

http://www.boundarywaters.com/boundary-waters.html

"The Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness - BWCA, protected as a true
American wilderness, has changed little since the glaciers melted. Canoeing,
and fishing opportunities are nearly endless on the more than 2,000 lakes
and streams found within the forest. With 1,500 miles of canoe routes,
nearly 2,200 designated campsites, and more than 1,000 lakes and streams
waiting, the BWCA boast some of the country's finest fishing for walleye,
northern pike, and smallmouth bass."

http://webpages.charter.net/duluthik...aw/ike_bwj.htm
BWCA's "rocky" history ...and The Izaak Walton League of America


Montblack-bears

  #35  
Old April 22nd 06, 12:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Grand Canyon overflight proposal

You know, in general we talk about promoting aviation on this group --
your comments seem quite out of step with this attitude.


Aviation is not a religion.

Jose
--
The price of freedom is... well... freedom.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
  #36  
Old April 22nd 06, 12:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Grand Canyon overflight proposal

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:19:37 -0500, "Montblack"
wrote:

. . .walleye, northern pike, and smallmouth bass."


Yanno, someday, there's gonna be a fish anti-defamation league and
we're all gonna havta learn the linnean nomenclature, lest the fish
find their self-esteem challenged.

Don
  #37  
Old April 22nd 06, 01:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Grand Canyon overflight proposal

("Jose" wrote)
Aviation is not a religion.



Thank goodness.

If it WERE one of the world's major religions, and you gave up flying to try
your hand at, say, golf ...AOPA would then immediately sentence you to
death!

If they choose to intercede, your life might be spared at the "behest" of
the PGA. (Sounds like behead doesn't it?g)

Of course, to save face, AOPA will claim you are no longer
mentally/medically fit to fly, anyway.


Montblack
[My cartoon bubble has Jesus, Buddha and The Prophet Mohammad playing golf]

....Buddha say, "Don't you know a gimme when you see one?"

  #38  
Old April 22nd 06, 01:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Grand Canyon overflight proposal

[My cartoon bubble has Jesus, Buddha and The Prophet Mohammad playing golf]

...Buddha say, "Don't you know a gimme when you see one?"


Just don't depict Mohammed in your cartoon, if you value your life.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

  #39  
Old April 22nd 06, 01:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Grand Canyon overflight proposal

"Jose" wrote in message
om...
Perhaps at the visitor center, but you go out a ways and you can find
peace and quiet. There is a self-filtering going on - those who want to
experience peace and quiet badly enough can do so. It involves getting
away from people, and that is what the national parks are all about.


It's a matter of degrees. Even at Disney Land, you can find a quiet corner.

However, by definition if you're annoyed by someone else's noise, you
haven't found a place that is unpopular and remote enough to offer
uninterrupted peace and quiet.

This includes noise from people who choose to visit the site using an
aircraft.

I don't mind some minimal regulation to try to set aside quiet areas.
However, there are already what I think are too many restrictions on flight
over the Grand Canyon, and banning aircraft outright is simply not fair. It
panders to a special-interest group, at the expense of another group's
legitimate rights.

Pete


  #40  
Old April 22nd 06, 01:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
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Default Grand Canyon overflight proposal

"RomeoMike" wrote in message
...
Meaning a place within the boundaries of the Grand Canyon National Park
from which the canyon itself is visible and where you are unlikely to
encounter anyone else, and if you did encounter another person it would be
easy to move off away from him and enjoy solitude.


But what right do you have to visit those places without interference from
anyone else? You certainly have a right to seek a place that isn't visited
by other humans, that is untainted by the noise of their activities. But
the onus is on you to find such a place. It is unfair to restrict access of
your favorites sites by others, just because you don't want to share them.

Pete


 




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