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#31
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Grand Canyon overflight proposal
RomeoMike wrote: Meaning a place within the boundaries of the Grand Canyon National Park from which the canyon itself is visible and where you are unlikely to encounter anyone else, and if you did encounter another person it would be easy to move off away from him and enjoy solitude. I never said it had to be popular in the sense of a lot of people being there. I just said there are places in the Grand Canyon that are beautiful, quiet and without people. Is that plain enough? I can agree with your statement completely. As a Boy scout close on to 20 years ago I hiked the Havasupai trail into the canyon several times. AFAIK you must obtain a permit from the Native Americans who live in th Supai village in the canyon. It's about an 11 mile hike and not exactly an easy one, but if you are looking for quiet, the need to obtain a permit restricts the number of people hiking this particular trail. Now, it has been a long time, but I honestly don't remember any offensive aircraft noise at all, but this may be due to restrictions of overflight of the Supai village (I'm not sure if these exist, just a thought) So I guess the point that I'm trying to make here is that there are places in the canyon to get away from all thre hustle bustle of the visitor's center type areas, you just have to be serious enough about it to do the research and planning necessary. And fortunately (for those looking for that peace and quiet) the average visitor to the canyon is either too restriced on their timetable or just too damn lazy to bother with all that trouble. Get yourself in the air no mattter how you get up there ! Wayne |
#32
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Grand Canyon overflight proposal
And I don't understand what the problem is. I've been part-way down
the canyon, and I saw and heard aircraft overhead. What's the big deal? "I've been in restaurants with smokers before. What's the big deal?" The fact that a special interest group is trying to restrict our freedoms... Freedoms overlap and conflict. They are not absolute. The overflight canyon experience should be a mandatory, "do before you die" thing for EVERY American Yanno, not everyone shares your love of being kept miles away from the ground by nothing more than a blast of air and processed dinosaurs. Jose -- The price of freedom is... well... freedom. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#33
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Grand Canyon overflight proposal
No, I wasn't overlooking this issue. As a matter of fact
this would be the issue. Keeping the price high would cut down the number of overhead visitors. Businesses would not go out of business because they don't have one currently. ??? Clearly, you've not seen the HUGE tour operators in Las Vegas, whose main business is taking tourists on scenic flights over the canyon. You limit them to 2 days per week (or whatever) of flying rights, and they won't survive. Pilots, handlers, ticket agents, etc., will be thrown out of work, and hundreds (thousands?) of tourists will be denied their flight of a lifetime every WEEK. You know, in general we talk about promoting aviation on this group -- your comments seem quite out of step with this attitude. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" If you didn't limit the days or time, everybody with 41 hours would be over the canyon every minute of every day. Make it expensive, it's expensive go by boat, With boats there are only so many permits per year and it works. Lou |
#34
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Grand Canyon overflight proposal
("Marc J. Zeitlin" wrote)
As a long time pilot that has always loved airplanes and airplane noise, and ALWAYS looks up when I hear an airplane overhead (and who works at Scaled and is around planes all day, every day), the big deal is that it's really nice to have peace and quiet sometimes, especially in a "natural" setting. And that's only from a "people-centric" position. You might enjoy the BWCA in Northern Minnesota. [Boundary Waters Canoe Area] http://www.bwcaw.org/ http://www.canoecountry.com/ http://www.boundarywaterscanoearea.com/ http://gorp.away.com/gorp/resource/u...a/mn_bound.htm http://www.boundarywaters.com/boundary-waters.html "The Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness - BWCA, protected as a true American wilderness, has changed little since the glaciers melted. Canoeing, and fishing opportunities are nearly endless on the more than 2,000 lakes and streams found within the forest. With 1,500 miles of canoe routes, nearly 2,200 designated campsites, and more than 1,000 lakes and streams waiting, the BWCA boast some of the country's finest fishing for walleye, northern pike, and smallmouth bass." http://webpages.charter.net/duluthik...aw/ike_bwj.htm BWCA's "rocky" history ...and The Izaak Walton League of America Montblack-bears |
#35
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Grand Canyon overflight proposal
You know, in general we talk about promoting aviation on this group --
your comments seem quite out of step with this attitude. Aviation is not a religion. Jose -- The price of freedom is... well... freedom. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#36
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Grand Canyon overflight proposal
On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:19:37 -0500, "Montblack"
wrote: . . .walleye, northern pike, and smallmouth bass." Yanno, someday, there's gonna be a fish anti-defamation league and we're all gonna havta learn the linnean nomenclature, lest the fish find their self-esteem challenged. Don |
#37
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Grand Canyon overflight proposal
("Jose" wrote)
Aviation is not a religion. Thank goodness. If it WERE one of the world's major religions, and you gave up flying to try your hand at, say, golf ...AOPA would then immediately sentence you to death! If they choose to intercede, your life might be spared at the "behest" of the PGA. (Sounds like behead doesn't it?g) Of course, to save face, AOPA will claim you are no longer mentally/medically fit to fly, anyway. Montblack [My cartoon bubble has Jesus, Buddha and The Prophet Mohammad playing golf] ....Buddha say, "Don't you know a gimme when you see one?" |
#38
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Grand Canyon overflight proposal
[My cartoon bubble has Jesus, Buddha and The Prophet Mohammad playing golf]
...Buddha say, "Don't you know a gimme when you see one?" Just don't depict Mohammed in your cartoon, if you value your life. -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#39
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Grand Canyon overflight proposal
"Jose" wrote in message
om... Perhaps at the visitor center, but you go out a ways and you can find peace and quiet. There is a self-filtering going on - those who want to experience peace and quiet badly enough can do so. It involves getting away from people, and that is what the national parks are all about. It's a matter of degrees. Even at Disney Land, you can find a quiet corner. However, by definition if you're annoyed by someone else's noise, you haven't found a place that is unpopular and remote enough to offer uninterrupted peace and quiet. This includes noise from people who choose to visit the site using an aircraft. I don't mind some minimal regulation to try to set aside quiet areas. However, there are already what I think are too many restrictions on flight over the Grand Canyon, and banning aircraft outright is simply not fair. It panders to a special-interest group, at the expense of another group's legitimate rights. Pete |
#40
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Grand Canyon overflight proposal
"RomeoMike" wrote in message
... Meaning a place within the boundaries of the Grand Canyon National Park from which the canyon itself is visible and where you are unlikely to encounter anyone else, and if you did encounter another person it would be easy to move off away from him and enjoy solitude. But what right do you have to visit those places without interference from anyone else? You certainly have a right to seek a place that isn't visited by other humans, that is untainted by the noise of their activities. But the onus is on you to find such a place. It is unfair to restrict access of your favorites sites by others, just because you don't want to share them. Pete |
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