Altimeter Setting

On Jun 3, 4:18*am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 21:13:37 -0600, Lewis Hartswick wrote:
Cats wrote:
The Single quote character is this: '

That isn't a quote . At least wasn't when I wet to school in the USA It
may be elsewhere or it could have change in the last 60 years.
* * ...Lew..

Its meaning is context dependent. I know three uses of it:

1) As 'single quote marks' in an English sentence.
2) As a character literal marker in programming, e.g 'a'.
3) To indicate ownership, it which case it's occurrence is never paired.


In case 3, it's not "it's", it's "its". And now you can add a fourth
case for contractions. :-).

-Evan

Interesting question.....
First of all, I recommend MSL altimeter setting for X -C flight.

So are you recommending or suggesting AGL for local flights?

Why? You just listed numerous reasons why MSL is preferable!

Kirk

On Jun 3, 8:10*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
Interesting question.....
First of all, I recommend MSL altimeter setting for X -C flight.

So are you recommending or suggesting AGL for local flights?

Why? *You just listed numerous reasons why MSL is preferable!

Kirk

QFE is only an accurate above ground altitude at the reporting point.
If you go somewhere other than where the QFE setting was input, it is
not an accurate agl altitude. QNH is accurate over a wide geographic
area and it is what most aircraft will have set so announcing your MSL
altitude would have some relevance for deconfliction. I use QFE in
the towplane because it's a local flight and I can record the release
altitude for billing. I convert the altimeter reading to MSL for any
position reports. It's not a big deal to me. Our gliders use QNH. I
clear like a bandit and am smart enough not to spend a lot of time
inside the airplane doing math.

ROFLMAO...


"sisu1a" wrote in message
...
(snip)
We can't set to "Zero" our MSL on the ground is higher than the altimeter
can adjust.
(snip)
We cannot set "Zero", our MSL on the ground is higher than the altimeter
can
adjust.
(snip)
We cannot set "Zero", our MSL on the ground is higher than the altimeter
can
adjust.
(snip)
We cannot set "Zero", our MSL on the ground is higher than the altimeter
can
adjust.
(snip)
We cannot set "Zero", our MSL on the ground is higher than the altimeter
can
adjust.

Uhh, nice try- but you were assigned 25 standards to write about not
being able to set "Zero" on your altimeter at your MSL on the ground -
and you only turned in five. Unacceptable. For that, you owe 25 more,
plus 25 additional standards about skimping on your assigned
standards.

When those are done and you've calmed down we can talk about when you
get to start soaring again, but for now your grounded mister. à²*_à²*

-Paul

On 6/1/2010 7:54 AM, Bob Whelan wrote:
On 5/31/2010 8:07 PM, Rolf wrote:
Over the years (30 or so) Caesar Creek Soaring Club has vacillated
with setting the altimeter to zero or MSL. Last year the Board decided
to put the Club ships on an MSL basis (private gliders exempted).
There are however a number of members who are continuing to make it an
issue. I would be interested in your thought and comments.

Wearing my dry humor hat just a bit...

snip
Fast forward to another mountain airport and another time... There I
wuz about to launch from a field at 8149' msl elevation, with a
steenking, howling crosswind of 20+ knots. Naturally, I didn't want to
land right off tow, so I decided I'd tow to 3,000' agl instead of my
normal 2,000'...insurance against broken thermals and getting blown
downwind away from the only landable pace for miles around (i.e. the
airport).

I pop off at what my poor overstressed brain said was 3000' agl, known
that instant to be an indicated 10,150' (I rounded up 'for safety's
sake'!), in a decent-feeling upwelling and begin grinding around,
keeping a beady eye on my drift relative to the field. I begin
climbing too, but for some reason I couldn't get comfortable as fast
as I thought my climb rate should be permitting...something about that
lurking ground bugged me. About 500' into my climb I realized it was
because the ground was WAY too close for being 3500' agl. Apparently
my instructor had been right about my 'puny overworked brain' all
those years ago!

Uh, Bob, have you ever tried to set an altimeter to zero when you are at
8149'? Not going to happen - it will still show 1000's of feet when
you've run out of adjustment. Now what do you do? AGL isn't an option,
so you'd have to use MSL (as you did).

Perhaps, perhaps, if you'd used MSL from the start your brain would "do
the math better". There is a way around the math problem that's simple:
a simple "dial" on the altimeter marked in 1000's of feet, which can be
rotated to show AGL from any elevation you choose. The 1000's needle
points to your AGL on the "dial".

Before electronic flight computers, I used this "dial" and prayer wheel
when flying XC. I reset the dial to elevation of whatever field I was
currently using as my target.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (netto to net to email me)

- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

On 6/4/2010 4:14 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 6/1/2010 7:54 AM, Bob Whelan wrote:
On 5/31/2010 8:07 PM, Rolf wrote:
Over the years (30 or so) Caesar Creek Soaring Club has vacillated
with setting the altimeter to zero or MSL. Last year the Board decided
to put the Club ships on an MSL basis (private gliders exempted).
There are however a number of members who are continuing to make it an
issue. I would be interested in your thought and comments.

Wearing my dry humor hat just a bit...

snip
Fast forward to another mountain airport and another time... There I
wuz about to launch from a field at 8149' msl elevation, with a
steenking, howling crosswind of 20+ knots. Naturally, I didn't want to
land right off tow, so I decided I'd tow to 3,000' agl instead of my
normal 2,000'...insurance against broken thermals and getting blown
downwind away from the only landable place for miles around (i.e. the
airport).

I pop off at what my poor overstressed brain said was 3000' agl, known
that instant to be an indicated 10,150' (I rounded up 'for safety's
sake'!), in a decent-feeling upwelling and begin grinding around,
keeping a beady eye on my drift relative to the field. I begin
climbing too, but for some reason I couldn't get comfortable as fast
as I thought my climb rate should be permitting...something about that
lurking ground bugged me. About 500' into my climb I realized it was
because the ground was WAY too close for being 3500' agl. Apparently
my instructor had been right about my 'puny overworked brain' all
those years ago!

Uh, Bob, have you ever tried to set an altimeter to zero when you are at
8149'? Not going to happen - it will still show 1000's of feet when
you've run out of adjustment. Now what do you do? AGL isn't an option,
so you'd have to use MSL (as you did).

Heck, I've never tried to set an altimeter to zero ANYtime/where, except
for my pre-solo flights (@800' msl) before my instructor decided I was
then smart enough to do simple arithmetic in my skull. And except for
the time I couldn't ADD (3,000' to 8,149'), my lack of arithmetic skills
have never been a problem.

Perhaps, perhaps, if you'd used MSL from the start your brain would "do
the math better".

Perhaps indeed...I'm OK with one (aggravating initially, funnier by the
second once I'd climbed away!) bozo error in 1100+ tows. So far as I
know, I'm still 100% on my subtractions!

There is a way around the math problem that's simple:
a simple "dial" on the altimeter marked in 1000's of feet, which can be
rotated to show AGL from any elevation you choose. The 1000's needle
points to your AGL on the "dial".

Before electronic flight computers, I used this "dial" and prayer wheel
when flying XC. I reset the dial to elevation of whatever field I was
currently using as my target.

Sounds like a good tip for the sufficiently needy/motivated - thanks!

Bob W.

P.S. Funnily enough (excuse the shameless pseudo-plug), my memory says
that was the same day 'Wilderness Doug' gained his moniker. It was BLOWing.

Just got back to RAS after a long absence to find this thread. Great
fun!

One more data point:

I learned to fly with CCSC (original poster is CCSC Pres.). Actually
at CCSC's former airport in Richmond, IN. The club gliders and most
private gliders had the altimeters set to AGL (zero). Easier math
(just read, no subtraction required). No radios in club gliders (to
hear warnings or communicate with power aircraft or anyone else). No
Class B or any other type of controlled airspace nearby (no Class B
anywhere in those days). It's Ohio: flat as a board so any airport we
could fly to was within 100' or so of takeoff altitude. Under the
conditions I was flying in--which arguably don't exist anymore--it's
undeniable that the mental load is lighter using AGL. I flew for
years, including cross country and midwestern regional and national
contests using AGL. I can't remember when I switched but it was no big
deal. I'd already had to do it a few times at wave camps, etc., and
just decided it was time to make the change. For some years even after
I switched to MSL, before each contest flight I would set the
altitmeter to zero, write down the altimeter setting, then reset it to
MSL. On final glide, I would reset it to AGL to make the mental math
easier with my cardboard "prayer wheel" final glider computer. I need
4200' to get home, the altimeter says 4800', so I'm in good shape.
Again, no subtraction required: just read the altimeter and compare to
the calculator.

There may still be situations where AGL works fine. Yeah, it's
probably better to start off doing it "right" with MSL, but we don't
start students off with spins or advanced thermaling techniques. We
begin with the easier stuff and move on gradually. This month marks
the 45th anniversary of my first lesson. I like to think I was no less
a "real pilot" for those years I flew with the altimeter set to AGL.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

On 5/31/2010 7:07 PM, Rolf wrote:
Over the years (30 or so) Caesar Creek Soaring Club has vacillated
with setting the altimeter to zero or MSL. Last year the Board decided
to put the Club ships on an MSL basis (private gliders exempted).
There are however a number of members who are continuing to make it an
issue. I would be interested in your thought and comments.
Thanks
Rolf Hegele
CCSC President


With all due respect, WTF!!??

Virtually, all of the aviators that you are like likely to encounter are
set to MSL. ATC, towers, TFRs, most of the altitudes on sectionals
including airports that you may need to use, weather briefings, the
lower limit of class E (17,999) are virtually all MSL. If you are
working in AGL, you are doing mathematics all day!

I hope that you join us. It will be easier for you and safer for everyone.

Paul
ZZ

On 8/10/2010 8:01 PM, ZZ wrote:
On 5/31/2010 7:07 PM, Rolf wrote:
Over the years (30 or so) Caesar Creek Soaring Club has vacillated
with setting the altimeter to zero or MSL. Last year the Board decided
to put the Club ships on an MSL basis (private gliders exempted).
There are however a number of members who are continuing to make it an
issue. I would be interested in your thought and comments.
Thanks
Rolf Hegele
CCSC President


With all due respect, WTF!!??

Virtually, all of the aviators that you are like likely to encounter are
set to MSL. ATC, towers, TFRs, most of the altitudes on sectionals
including airports that you may need to use, weather briefings, the
lower limit of class E (17,999) are virtually all MSL. If you are
working in AGL, you are doing mathematics all day!

I hope that you join us. It will be easier for you and safer for everyone.

Paul
ZZ
Correction. In my rant I meant the upper limit of class E.
Paul
ZZ

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 20:03:40 -0700, ZZ
wrote:

On 8/10/2010 8:01 PM, ZZ wrote:
On 5/31/2010 7:07 PM, Rolf wrote:
Over the years (30 or so) Caesar Creek Soaring Club has vacillated
with setting the altimeter to zero or MSL. Last year the Board decided
to put the Club ships on an MSL basis (private gliders exempted).
There are however a number of members who are continuing to make it an
issue. I would be interested in your thought and comments.
Thanks
Rolf Hegele
CCSC President


With all due respect, WTF!!??

Virtually, all of the aviators that you are like likely to encounter are
set to MSL. ATC, towers, TFRs, most of the altitudes on sectionals
including airports that you may need to use, weather briefings, the
lower limit of class E (17,999) are virtually all MSL. If you are
working in AGL, you are doing mathematics all day!

I hope that you join us. It will be easier for you and safer for everyone.

Paul
ZZ
Correction. In my rant I meant the upper limit of class E.
Paul
ZZ

WTF indeed.I don't think I'd want to be an officer of a club whose
operating rules forbid compliance with
FAR 91.121...

rj