A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Home Built
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #91  
Old December 5th 05, 06:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Smitty Two wrote:

In article _jMkf.602344$_o.270005@attbi_s71,
"C.D.Damron" wrote:


"Dennis Fetters" wrote in message
y.com...

If you had some real-earth experience in what you were saying, then you
would not be saying it.


You don't have to design and market a helicopter to understand that you
should probably design and test your product adequately before selling it.
Call me old fashioned, but that is how I think it should be done, especially
if lives are at stake.



Maybe you "should," but if that were the business model prevalent in the
real world today, Microsoft wouldn't be who they are. Imagine a product
or service that needs to be "patched' every three days or so being
successful in the market place. Utterly incomprehensible to Mac users
and other men of proper wit. Snake oil goes by a lot of different
monikers in different industries, but it isn't likely to be pulled off
the shelves any time soon. Caveat Emptor.

While I have the virtual floor, I'll add that I don't know anything
about Mr. Fetters or his products, but since neither he nor his
detractors seem able to discuss the issues like gentlemen, I put little
credence in anything said here on this topic. That's unfortunate,
because while I might have learned something interesting if not useful,
all I've gained is another confirmation that flared nostrils do not win
friends and influence people.



Dear Mr. Smitty,
Thank you for your post, I see where you're coming from. Although I try
my best to be gentlemanly, it becomes extremely difficult when you are
only dealing with childlike behavior from the detractors. I try to
answer questions and false statements as nice and well as I can, but
look at what I have to respond back to, and to only the 3 people making
the rude comments here. I never start the discussions, but only jump in
to correct false statements once they are submitted. It is a challenge
to say the least, but I do try. Any questions you have, I am more than
happy to answer.

Sincerely,

Dennis Fetters

Designer of;
Air Command 1/plcs Gyroplanes
Air Command 2/plcs Gyroplanes
Mini-500 1/Plcs Helicopter
Voyager-500 2/Plcs Helicopter
Excalibur 5/Plcs Turbine Helicopter
Star-Lite-A VTUAV Helicopter
Star-Lite-B VTUAV Helicopter
  #92  
Old December 5th 05, 06:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Smitty Two wrote:

Maybe you "should," but if that were the business model prevalent in the
real world today, Microsoft wouldn't be who they are. Imagine a product
or service that needs to be "patched' every three days or so being
successful in the market place. Utterly incomprehensible to Mac users
and other men of proper wit. Snake oil goes by a lot of different
monikers in different industries, but it isn't likely to be pulled off
the shelves any time soon. Caveat Emptor.


You've described *fBetters Bilt* pretty well. He apparently took
"Pirates of Silicon Valley" and applied it to rotary winged aircraft. He
took others designs and "improved" on them. All are "Caveat Emptor" as
they've proved to be fatal, least the people flying models. One for sure
was *vaporware* (Voyager-500 2/Plcs Helicopter, people paid for them and
never got anything), maybe mo

Excalibur 5/Plcs Turbine Helicopter (Excalibur is an airplane)
Star-Lite-A VTUAV Helicopter
Star-Lite-B VTUAV Helicopter
(He posted once he was "designing" a UAV)

Pirates of Silicon Valley (1999)
http://imdb.com/title/tt0168122
  #93  
Old December 5th 05, 07:25 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Darrel Toepfer wrote:

Smitty Two wrote:

Maybe you "should," but if that were the business model prevalent in
the real world today, Microsoft wouldn't be who they are. Imagine a
product or service that needs to be "patched' every three days or so
being successful in the market place. Utterly incomprehensible to Mac
users and other men of proper wit. Snake oil goes by a lot of
different monikers in different industries, but it isn't likely to be
pulled off the shelves any time soon. Caveat Emptor.



You've described *fBetters Bilt* pretty well. He apparently took
"Pirates of Silicon Valley" and applied it to rotary winged aircraft. He
took others designs and "improved" on them.



As did every helicopter designer and manufacturer since Igor. I never
claimed to invent the helicopter. I don't even think I "improved" them.
I just designed and manufactured my own.

As for Fetters-Built Co., what could you possibly know about it? I don't
deal with the public, so you have no way of knowing anything to base any
comments about it.


All are "Caveat Emptor" as
they've proved to be fatal, least the people flying models. One for sure
was *vaporware* (Voyager-500 2/Plcs Helicopter, people paid for them and
never got anything),



Then we sure spent a lot of money and time for a hoax. "vaporware" is
something that never existed. We built the Voyager-500, flew it and
started manufacturing parts for it. Not making it to the marketplace is
another story, because sadly it didn't.


maybe mo

Star-Lite-A VTUAV Helicopter
(He posted once he was "designing" a UAV)


Send me your email address, and I'll send you a picture of one of my
UAV's. Or, just ask old Beav, I sent him some.


Dennis Fetters

Designer of;
Air Command 1/plcs Gyroplanes
Air Command 2/plcs Gyroplanes
Mini-500 1/Plcs Helicopter
Voyager-500 2/Plcs Helicopter
Excalibur 5/Plcs Turbine Helicopter
Star-Lite-A VTUAV Helicopter
Star-Lite-B VTUAV Helicopter
  #94  
Old December 5th 05, 09:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Dennis,

So, you were undercapitalized and your product was underpriced. A brilliant
example of pending business failure.

My big problem with this thread is your claim of a 2000 hour TBO. You knew
from the start that a helicopter is a harsh environment for parts to live
in. Some helicopters have to be thrown away well before that. Your
advertising claim was huge. You were telling people "Look! This one will
last." Dennis, design includes testing. It's not a part until it's proven
it's a part. That was implied in your advertising claim. Now, you've
redefined "design" to mean ... Well what does it mean? If a part is
designed to last 2000 hours and it breaks at 1500 hours, there are those who
would say that's close enough. I wouldn't say that but, others might. You
had parts failing at *tens* of hours. There are only two possible
explainations: either you're a truely crappy designer or you lied and you
never even tried to design to 2000 hours. So, which is it? Are you an
incompetent or are you a liar who's word shouldn't be taken about anything.
It doesn't matter what other people do. You should have learned that when
you were twelve years old. It doesn't matter what sort of remediation you
offered. Your parts weren't properly designed.

For others that are reading this thread: take a close look at Dennis's
financial numbers. After you've had time to study them, we should reopen
the thread on why fancy LSAs cost $100,000.

Rich


  #95  
Old December 5th 05, 10:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Richard Isakson wrote:

Dennis,

So, you were undercapitalized and your product was underpriced. A brilliant
example of pending business failure.



Welcome to the world of kitbuilt aviation. You can only sell what people
will pay for.


My big problem with this thread is your claim of a 2000 hour TBO. You knew
from the start that a helicopter is a harsh environment for parts to live
in.



I sure do.


Some helicopters have to be thrown away well before that.


They sure do.


Your
advertising claim was huge. You were telling people "Look! This one will
last."



No, I said if you build your kit the same way we built ours, you should
expect the same results. Our advertising claim was correct. We did use
the 2000 hour mark as our designed goal. Like "ALL" helicopters ever
built, some components needed redesigned after being exposed to the
customers. Like "ALL" helicopters, there were some things that we simply
designed inadequate, and had to redesign. And we did, each and every
problem, and for free or at our cost to the customer.

Even then, we had less problems to correct than the most popular
commercial helicopters did after they first come out. THAT SAYS
SOMETHING, and we didn't even built them, the customers did.


Dennis, design includes testing. It's not a part until it's proven
it's a part. That was implied in your advertising claim.



We did do testing, more than most companies did too. We were as
confidant as we could be when we started shipping parts. But, unlike
you, we were not blind to the fact that we knew that someday there would
be problems. All helicopter manufacturers know that. We took the
problems as they came and fixed them. We were lucky there were so few,
compared to all other new designs.


Now, you've
redefined "design" to mean ... Well what does it mean?



It means designed. You want it to mean designed and tested to the life
expectancy, but that is something else, that means commercial and high
prices.


If a part is
designed to last 2000 hours and it breaks at 1500 hours, there are those who
would say that's close enough. I wouldn't say that but, others might. You
had parts failing at *tens* of hours.



What is Frank Robinson excuse, and was it good enough for you? You are
right dude, we had some parts fail to soon. We know it, and we corrected
them. But you have to give some credit for as few problems as we had,
and how cheep it was to fix them. It's not OK that we made mistakes, but
we fixed them and that is the best I can offer. I understand that is not
going to be exceptable for you, you don't have to be reasonable, I do.


There are only two possible
explainations: either you're a truely crappy designer or you lied and you
never even tried to design to 2000 hours. So, which is it?



Who are you to say anything? Who are you to say these are the only two
explanations? You are so closed minded that even if the facts slapped
you in the head you would refuse to believe them. Read what I said above
and stop talking like some uneducated idiot for a moment.


Are you an
incompetent or are you a liar who's word shouldn't be taken about anything.
It doesn't matter what other people do. You should have learned that when
you were twelve years old. It doesn't matter what sort of remediation you
offered. Your parts weren't properly designed.



I wish I was a better designer. I wish I had never made a mistake. I
hope I never will make another mistake, but I am realistic, unlike you.

But Mr. Isakson, there is one undeniable fact you can't deny, well you
could, and will. Even if I was the worst designer in the world, the fact
is that I did design a working helicopter, built the kits and sold over
500, and that puts me high above what you have done. The lower you try
and place me, the lower you place yourself. I may be a has-been in the
kitbuilt field, thank God, but better that than a never-been, or a
never-gonna-be, like you. And you judge me?


Dennis Fetters

Designer of;
Air Command 1/plcs Gyroplanes
Air Command 2/plcs Gyroplanes
Mini-500 1/Plcs Helicopter
Voyager-500 2/Plcs Helicopter
Excalibur 5/Plcs Turbine Helicopter
Star-Lite-A VTUAV Helicopter
Star-Lite-B VTUAV Helicopter


  #96  
Old December 5th 05, 10:51 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!


"Dennis Fetters" wrote ...
The lower you try
and place me, the lower you place yourself. I may be a has-been in the
kitbuilt field, thank God, but better that than a never-been, or a
never-gonna-be, like you. And you judge me?


Yes, Dennis. As an educated Aeronautical Engineer and a life long engineer,
I judge you.

Rich


  #97  
Old December 5th 05, 11:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Richard Isakson wrote:

"Dennis Fetters" wrote ...

The lower you try
and place me, the lower you place yourself. I may be a has-been in the
kitbuilt field, thank God, but better that than a never-been, or a
never-gonna-be, like you. And you judge me?



Yes, Dennis. As an educated Aeronautical Engineer and a life long engineer,
I judge you.

Rich





Good for you! Email me some of the aircraft you have designed, built and
manufactured, let's compare.

fettersbuiltco at sbcglobal dot net


Dennis Fetters

Designer of;
Air Command 1/plcs Gyroplanes
Air Command 2/plcs Gyroplanes
Mini-500 1/Plcs Helicopter
Voyager-500 2/Plcs Helicopter
Excalibur 5/Plcs Turbine Helicopter
Star-Lite-A VTUAV Helicopter
Star-Lite-B VTUAV Helicopter
  #98  
Old December 6th 05, 12:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Richard Isakson wrote:
"Dennis Fetters" wrote ...

The lower you try
and place me, the lower you place yourself. I may be a has-been in the
kitbuilt field, thank God, but better that than a never-been, or a
never-gonna-be, like you. And you judge me?



Yes, Dennis. As an educated Aeronautical Engineer and a life long engineer,
I judge you.

Rich



Just curious, but how many products have you designed, manufactured and
sold?

Matt
  #99  
Old December 6th 05, 12:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!

Smitty Two wrote:

In article _jMkf.602344$_o.270005@attbi_s71,
"C.D.Damron" wrote:


"Dennis Fetters" wrote in message
y.com...

If you had some real-earth experience in what you were saying, then you
would not be saying it.


You don't have to design and market a helicopter to understand that you
should probably design and test your product adequately before selling it.
Call me old fashioned, but that is how I think it should be done, especially
if lives are at stake.



Maybe you "should," but if that were the business model prevalent in the
real world today, Microsoft wouldn't be who they are. Imagine a product
or service that needs to be "patched' every three days or so being
successful in the market place. Utterly incomprehensible to Mac users
and other men of proper wit. Snake oil goes by a lot of different
monikers in different industries, but it isn't likely to be pulled off
the shelves any time soon. Caveat Emptor.

While I have the virtual floor, I'll add that I don't know anything
about Mr. Fetters or his products, but since neither he nor his
detractors seem able to discuss the issues like gentlemen, I put little
credence in anything said here on this topic. That's unfortunate,
because while I might have learned something interesting if not useful,
all I've gained is another confirmation that flared nostrils do not win
friends and influence people.


I'm in the same boat as you. I know little about Dennis or his
helicopter(s). I know little about his detractors here. However, just
from reading the diatribes that crop up here every two years, I
personally think that Dennis comes across at least as credible as his
detractors. Most seem to just foam at the mouth a lot and make
accusations that they can't back up when he calls their bluff. It tends
to be entertaining for about five posts and then is just stupid.


Matt
  #100  
Old December 6th 05, 12:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default (Mini-500)I want to build the most EVIL plane EVER !!!


"Smitty Two" wrote

While I have the virtual floor, I'll add that I don't know anything
about Mr. Fetters or his products, but since neither he nor his
detractors seem able to discuss the issues like gentlemen, I put little
credence in anything said here on this topic.


If you have a whole bunch of time to kill, google Mini-500, with the field
of search locations being this newsgroup.

I'll try to put out some of the high points (low points) of other's
accusations against the 500. I'm sure others could add much more, but most
of them are no longer active in this group.

The engine in the mini was running at something like 130% of the
manufacturer's recommended power level. It had to be re-jetted to produce
that much power, and had a horrible TBO and mean time between failures.

It barely had enough power to get out of ground effect hover, so climbout
was so slow that if took much longer than usual to get enough altitude that
an autorotation could be successfully pulled off.

Major parts (necessary for safe flight) were not designed with enough safety
margin, with excessive slop, and failed after very short run times.

There were problems getting parts in a timely manner for some customers,
even though they had been paid for.

When the engine packed it in, it tended to tuck over very quickly, and crash
at a steep angle. IIRC, a stabilizer was added to help protect against this
trait.

Many people had close friends die in them, and contrary to what has been
said, many were highly experienced rotorcraft pilots. They were declared
pilot error, but it might be said that no pilot could have saved them in
similar situations.

Long to short, if the engine died, you died. The engines died way too
often.

Others could add more, and I'm sure Dennis will refute every single thing I
have written, but he has had much practice defending himself.
--
Jim in NC



 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
American nazi pond scum, version two bushite kills bushite Naval Aviation 0 December 21st 04 11:46 PM
Hey! What fun!! Let's let them kill ourselves!!! [email protected] Naval Aviation 2 December 17th 04 10:45 PM
rec.aviation.aerobatics FAQ Dr. Guenther Eichhorn Aerobatics 0 November 1st 03 07:27 AM
Conspiracy Theorists (amusing) Grantland Military Aviation 1 October 2nd 03 12:17 AM
rec.aviation.aerobatics FAQ Dr. Guenther Eichhorn Aerobatics 0 October 1st 03 07:27 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.