Buzzed?

So I'm flying IFR down V441 in Florida today, when I hear the
controller who's working me call traffic to a VFR airplane he's
providing with advisories. "Traffic, twelve o'clock, opposite
direction, very fast, same altitude, suggest you descend now." The 172
he's talking to descends in a hurry, and the traffic passes without
being seen. A few minute later, the controller says the same traffic
has circled around and is now coming back at the VFR airplane once
again. Once again, negative contact. Next time, the traffic is reported
circling ahead of the 172, until he breaks off and again makes a pass
around the Cessna. This time the now rather panicked VFR pilot see the
traffic, and reports it to the controller as "some sort of single." The
controller points out that at 250 kts at 5000 ft, it's unlikely to be a
piston and it must be some sort of jet. The pilot then asks, nervously,
if the building he's flying over is a nuclear power plant, fearing, no
doubt, that he's been intercepted. Negative, the controller replies,
and still no-one knows what's going on. At this point, I have to leave
the freq for the next controller and so I miss the ending, but I wonder
if this was indeed an interception, but if so, wouldn't the controller
know? Coincidentally, or not, a small plane crashed into the terminal
at Gainesville just south of there around that time, so perhaps
"someone" felt there might be rogue airplanes out there? Comments???

Coincidentally, or not, a small plane crashed into the terminal
at Gainesville just south of there around that time, so perhaps
"someone" felt there might be rogue airplanes out there? Comments???

Creepy story, Mike. I hope you find out what happened!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Mike Granby" wrote in message
oups.com...
[...] I wonder
if this was indeed an interception, but if so, wouldn't the controller
know? Coincidentally, or not, a small plane crashed into the terminal
at Gainesville just south of there around that time, so perhaps
"someone" felt there might be rogue airplanes out there? Comments???

Don't know. But given that I've heard stories of pilots flying
lower-powered airplanes using other airplanes as simulated targets, it sure
wouldn't surprise me to find someone out there in a Mustang, or L-39, or
what-have-you doing the same thing (though, I assume the visual ID rules out
the L-39, in spite of that plane technically being a single ).

IMHO, the controller should have tracked the airplane to its landing, and
had an FAA inspector find out what was going on. Even better if the C172
pilot could get a good visual on it and identify the type (perhaps that did
happen later).

I would think that ATC would be informed regarding an intercept, and in any
case jet or no jet, I would expect the intercepting aircraft to be flying
slower than 250 knots. Sure doesn't sound like an intercept to me.

Pete

"Mike Granby" wrote in message
oups.com...
So I'm flying IFR down V441 in Florida today, when I hear the
controller who's working me call traffic to a VFR airplane he's
providing with advisories. "Traffic, twelve o'clock, opposite
direction, very fast, same altitude, suggest you descend now." The 172
he's talking to descends in a hurry, and the traffic passes without
being seen. A few minute later, the controller says the same traffic
has circled around and is now coming back at the VFR airplane once
again. Once again, negative contact. Next time, the traffic is reported
circling ahead of the 172, until he breaks off and again makes a pass
around the Cessna. This time the now rather panicked VFR pilot see the
traffic, and reports it to the controller as "some sort of single." The
controller points out that at 250 kts at 5000 ft, it's unlikely to be a
piston and it must be some sort of jet.

I wonder if it was one of these?

http://www.if1airracing.com/IF1_Planes.shtml

These guys tend to fly around in circles at 250kts.

"Ted" wrote in message
news

"Mike Granby" wrote in message
oups.com...
So I'm flying IFR down V441 in Florida today, when I hear the
controller who's working me call traffic to a VFR airplane he's
providing with advisories. "Traffic, twelve o'clock, opposite
direction, very fast, same altitude, suggest you descend now." The 172
he's talking to descends in a hurry, and the traffic passes without
being seen. A few minute later, the controller says the same traffic
has circled around and is now coming back at the VFR airplane once
again. Once again, negative contact. Next time, the traffic is reported
circling ahead of the 172, until he breaks off and again makes a pass
around the Cessna. This time the now rather panicked VFR pilot see the
traffic, and reports it to the controller as "some sort of single." The
controller points out that at 250 kts at 5000 ft, it's unlikely to be a
piston and it must be some sort of jet.

I wonder if it was one of these?

http://www.if1airracing.com/IF1_Planes.shtml

These guys tend to fly around in circles at 250kts.


One day years ago after I did my runup in my little Cessna 152 and announced
my departure on runway 34 one of these little single seat buggers pulled out
onto the runway in front of me and took off. No waiting in line on the
taxiway for his turn, no radio calls, no nothing. I was quite annoyed at
his complete contempt for proper airport procedures until I saw him use
about 450 feet of runway to lift off. His climb out was essentially
vertical and in another few moments he flew over my head and out of sight.

http://www.if1airracing.com/IF1_Bio....0Hav en%20Bio

Mike Granby wrote:
So I'm flying IFR down V441 in Florida today, when I hear the
controller who's working me call traffic to a VFR airplane he's
providing with advisories. "Traffic, twelve o'clock, opposite
direction, very fast, same altitude, suggest you descend now." The 172
he's talking to descends in a hurry, and the traffic passes without
being seen. A few minute later, the controller says the same traffic
has circled around and is now coming back at the VFR airplane once
again. Once again, negative contact. Next time, the traffic is reported
circling ahead of the 172, until he breaks off and again makes a pass
around the Cessna. This time the now rather panicked VFR pilot see the
traffic, and reports it to the controller as "some sort of single." The
controller points out that at 250 kts at 5000 ft, it's unlikely to be a
piston and it must be some sort of jet. The pilot then asks, nervously,
if the building he's flying over is a nuclear power plant, fearing, no
doubt, that he's been intercepted. Negative, the controller replies,
and still no-one knows what's going on. At this point, I have to leave
the freq for the next controller and so I miss the ending, but I wonder
if this was indeed an interception, but if so, wouldn't the controller
know? Coincidentally, or not, a small plane crashed into the terminal
at Gainesville just south of there around that time, so perhaps
"someone" felt there might be rogue airplanes out there? Comments???

This sounds like a story for Art Bell.

Mike Granby wrote:

So I'm flying IFR down V441 in Florida today, when I hear the
controller who's working me call traffic to a VFR airplane he's
providing with advisories. "Traffic, twelve o'clock, opposite
direction, very fast, same altitude, suggest you descend now."
snip

Reminds me of the opening sequence in the movie, "Close Encounters of the
Third Kind:"

[AirEast Pilot]: OK Center. AirEast 31. The traffic has turned. He's
heading right for my windshield. We're turning right...

(A CONFLICT ALERT sounds)

[Air Traffic Controller]: AirEast 31, descend and maintain flight level
three-one-zero. Break, Allegheny triple four. Turn right thirty degrees
immediately...

[AirEast Pilot}: AirEast 31, Roger. The traffic is quite luminous and is
exhibiting some non-ballistic motion. Over.

[Air Traffic Controller]: Roger, AirEast 31. Continue to descend at your
discretion, over.

[AirEast Pilot]: OK, Center. Center pilot's discretion is approved. The
traffic is approaching head-on...and really moving. Went by us, right now.
That was really close.

[Supervisor]: Ask them if they want to report officially.

[Air Traffic Controller]: TWA 517, do you want to report a UFO? Over.
(No response) TWA 517, do you want to report a UFO? Over.

[TWA Pilot]: Negative. We don't want to report.

[Air Traffic Controller]: AirEast 31, do you wish to report a UFO? Over.

[AirEast Pilot]: Negative. We don't want to report one of those either.

[Air Traffic Controller]: AirEast 31, do you wish to file a report of any
kind to us?

[AirEast Pilot]: I wouldn't know what kind of report to file, Center.

[Air Traffic Controller]: AirEast 31, me neither. I'll try to track traffic
and destination, over.


--
Peter

Ted wrote:

I was quite annoyed at his complete contempt for proper airport procedures until I saw him use about 450 feet of runway to lift off. His climb out was essentially vertical and in another few moments he flew over my head and out of sight

So your annoyance turned to awe after seeing his T/O performance? G


I doubt that's any justification for what he did, if that's what you
meant.

Reminds me ...

a Long Time Ago, while attending summer school at Kansas State on my way
to Wright Field, I hooked up with the Ft Riley Aero Club who had -- 2
Aeronca Champs. So, from flying T-34s in which I earned my private
pilot's license, I get my tail wheel endorsement (that's another story)
- even before such endorsements were required.

Out joyriding one day with a friend, flying down the middle of Tuttle
Creek Reservoir (a 'big' lake for a Kansas boy), cruising at the
airplane's service ceiling (3000 feet or so), we notice that a 'big
machine' is really close off our left wing.

It's a CH-34 helicopter (http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/ch34002.jpg).
They want to talk, but -- the Champs don't have radios; they try hand
gestures but -- my training is Air Force, not Army. With them so close,
and us in our 'really small airplane', my passenger said later he
thought about getting out (there was -water- below us).

We fly down the lake in formation; it seems we're no more than 100 feet
apart. I'm flying as straight and level as I can, except -- when I
sense they are coming closer I turn slightly to the right.

After flying like this for five minutes or so, they raise their tail
rotor and fly ahead of us, and away. All I can think about at that
point is the possibility that this small tube & cloth Champ will get
tangled up in the downdraft above or below that big whirling rotor.

We return to the Junction City airport with no more excitement - we've
had enough for today.

Thanks, folks, for triggering the recall of great memories, and for
giving us a place to share them with an audience that appreciates the
living of them.

george

George Young
Seaford, VA

Thanks, folks, for triggering the recall of great memories, and for
giving us a place to share them with an audience that appreciates the
living of them.

Thanks for sharing George. Most of us here do appreciate it : )