are wooden gliders worthwhile building ?

serious question.
in this day and age where the slippery glass reigns supreme are there
any wooden gliders actually worth building ?

if your son was on the way to a glider instructors rating, as mine is,
is there a wooden glider design that would be worth building ?
something with reasonable performance that would be a sheer pleasure
to fly.

something a dad could spring on the kid.

Stealth Pilot

The problem with wood is that it changes shape with changes in humidity.
It's also heavier than composites or metal construction. But, one has to
admit, some very nice gliders have been built using wood.

There's one wood homebuilt that I've always admired - the Briglieb BG-12.
It's a very simple to build - well within the capabilities of the average
homebuilder. Almost all of them easily achieved 34:1. The 3-part wing was
a beast to assemble but the 2-part wing should be easy enough to rig with
some assembly aids.

I would also consider the Marske Pioneer II D. Although the wing is wood,
the rest is composite. It's a nice safe glider with reasonable performance.

Finally, don't build a glider just to own a glider - do it because you want
to build something and learn from the process. If you just want to own a
glider using some sweat equity, buy a first or second generation fiberglass
glider that needs refinishing. There can be some real value added in a good
refinish job.

Bill D


"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...

serious question.
in this day and age where the slippery glass reigns supreme are there
any wooden gliders actually worth building ?

if your son was on the way to a glider instructors rating, as mine is,
is there a wooden glider design that would be worth building ?
something with reasonable performance that would be a sheer pleasure
to fly.

something a dad could spring on the kid.

Stealth Pilot

On Feb 4, 7:30*am, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
The problem with wood is that it changes shape with changes in humidity.
It's also heavier than composites or metal construction. *But, one has to
admit, some very nice gliders have been built using wood.

There's one wood homebuilt that I've always admired - the Briglieb BG-12.
It's a very simple to build - well within the capabilities of the average
homebuilder. *Almost all of them easily achieved 34:1. *The 3-part wing was
a beast to assemble but the 2-part wing should be easy enough to rig with
some assembly aids.

I would also consider the Marske Pioneer II D. *Although the wing is wood,
the rest is composite. *It's a nice safe glider with reasonable performance.

Finally, don't build a glider just to own a glider - do it because you want
to build something and learn from the process. *If you just want to own a
glider using some sweat equity, buy a first or second generation fiberglass
glider that needs refinishing. *There can be some real value added in a good
refinish job.

Bill D

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message

...



serious question.
in this day and age where the slippery glass reigns supreme are there
any wooden gliders actually worth building ?

if your son was on the way to a glider instructors rating, as mine is,
is there a wooden glider design that would be worth building ?
something with reasonable performance that would be a sheer pleasure
to fly.

something a dad could spring on the kid.

Stealth Pilot

Wasn't this accident a young man flying a BG-12 bought by his father.
http://ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_i...LA312& akey=1

Infact looking at the NTSB this type has a lot of fatal's from
structural failure!!

Sobering thought when looking at old wooden / homebuilt gliders.

yes.......and many of them (most today) not from these old wood ships....!
tim


Infact looking at the NTSB this type has a lot of fatal's from
structural failure!!

Sobering thought when looking at old wooden / homebuilt gliders.

On Feb 4, 6:16*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
serious question.
in this day and age where the slippery glass reigns supreme are there
any wooden gliders actually worth building ?

if your son was on the way to a glider instructors rating, as mine is,
is there a wooden glider design that would be worth building ?
something with reasonable performance that would be a sheer pleasure
to fly.

something a dad could spring on the kid.

Stealth Pilot

This fellow thinks so!
http://members.aol.com/woodglider/mattart1.htm

http://web.media.mit.edu/~tim/pix/oshkosh03_3/0896.jpg

/Adam

Better link he

http://members.aol.com/woodglider/matt.htm

/Adam

http://web.media.mit.edu/~tim/pix/oshkosh03_3/0896.jpg

/Adam


Well thats cool. I never saw that photo and that's my glider! Cam
Martin brought me to Oshkosh to display and talk about the Woodstock.

To the original poster, the Woodstock is a very fine ship. Of all the
wood homebuilts it might not be the best performing in terms of L/D
but it is very well designed. I think that a lot that was learned
from the Cherokees, BGs, Terns, Dusters, that came before was applied
to the Woodstock. When Bob Wander wanted to build a wood glider he
chose the Woodstock after a lengthy study. The credientials of the
designers are impeccable. The performance may not be impressive on
paper but in the sky it never ceases to amaze me and anyone else
flying nearby. L/D isn't everything. Yes, it's very lightweight but
it has a fast wing and is very rugged. It will do much more than
simply float around the airport.

The Cherokee is also a neat machine. If you can find one that needs
rebuilding it's a very worthwhile project. Reference our own Cherokee
Kid, Tony Condon's many posts here (and at www.knighglider.com) about
the fun he's having with his. The Cherokee has unique but not
dangerous stall characteristics. Emphasis on training.

The BGs do perform well as Bill said but the flap-only aspect somewhat
complicates landings. Again, emphasis on training.

Cam Martin has had his Duster on the market and from what I gather
it's a great machine. He lets his son fly it.

The Miller Tern has tiny airbrakes which reportedly make approaches
challenging.

Other old wood would include the K6s and K8s (the 8 has steel tube
fuselage) Folka and Cobra, Austrias, Slingsbys... I know of a very
nice K6 looking for a home.

Whats great about the old wood is that you can get it cheap, it's
satisfying to restore, and they are fun to fly. The whole experiece
is living history. The downside is as Bill mentioned, crashworthyness
wasn't part of the design philosophy, and some of the homebuilts have
quirky characteristics. But if you find a good one, personally verify
the airworthyness and the training of whoever is going to fly it you
get some great soaring experiences for very little money.

Matt Michael
Ames Iowa

On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 08:39:51 -0800 (PST), wrote:



http://web.media.mit.edu/~tim/pix/oshkosh03_3/0896.jpg

/Adam


Well thats cool. I never saw that photo and that's my glider! Cam
Martin brought me to Oshkosh to display and talk about the Woodstock.

To the original poster, the Woodstock is a very fine ship. Of all the
wood homebuilts it might not be the best performing in terms of L/D
but it is very well designed. I think that a lot that was learned
from the Cherokees, BGs, Terns, Dusters, that came before was applied
to the Woodstock. When Bob Wander wanted to build a wood glider he
chose the Woodstock after a lengthy study. The credientials of the
designers are impeccable. The performance may not be impressive on
paper but in the sky it never ceases to amaze me and anyone else
flying nearby. L/D isn't everything. Yes, it's very lightweight but
it has a fast wing and is very rugged. It will do much more than
simply float around the airport.



Matt Michael
Ames Iowa

matt
do you still fly your woodstock?
how robust has it proven to be over the years?
have you had anything that has broken or needed repairing?

I'm building a Druine Turbulent at present but it could very well be
the next aircraft I build.

yours is a georgeous aeroplane. far better I think than a classic
wooden boat.
Stealth Pilot

On Feb 5, 8:09*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 08:39:51 -0800 (PST), wrote:

http://web.media.mit.edu/~tim/pix/oshkosh03_3/0896.jpg

/Adam

Well thats cool. *I never saw that photo and that's my glider! *Cam
Martin brought me to Oshkosh to display and talk about the Woodstock.

To the original poster, the Woodstock is a very fine ship. *Of all the
wood homebuilts it might not be the best performing in terms of L/D
but it is very well designed. *I think that a lot that was learned
from the Cherokees, BGs, Terns, Dusters, that came before was applied
to the Woodstock. When Bob Wander wanted to build a wood glider he
chose the Woodstock after a lengthy study. *The credientials of the
designers are impeccable. The performance may not be impressive on
paper but in the sky it never ceases to amaze me and anyone else
flying nearby. *L/D isn't everything. *Yes, it's very lightweight but
it has a fast wing and is very rugged. *It will do much more than
simply float around the airport.

Matt Michael
Ames Iowa

matt
do you still fly your woodstock?
how robust has it proven to be over the years?
have you had anything that has broken or needed repairing?

I'm building a Druine Turbulent at present but it could very well be
the next aircraft I build.

yours is a georgeous aeroplane. far better I think than a classic
wooden boat.
Stealth Pilot- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes, it has a boatlike effect. I call it my sky kayak. I have not
flown it very often the last few years due to other commitments
instructing and power flying. 2 flights of note:

Ran wingtip to wingtip with a Folka 4 under a cloud street for about
25 miles late in the day. I went an extra few miles off the end of
the street and ended up scratching like mad while trying to limp
home. Just as I was at pattern altitude for a private strip I caught
the gust front from a minor rain storm that was approaching and
climbed continually for 15 miles arriving home at 9000agl. Spiriled
down, rolled out, and shoved it into the nearest hanger seconds before
the downpour. 10 minutes later there was a big double rainbow over the
hanger. At dinner I kept putting my fork down and saying, "I can't
believe I made it back!"

Last fall the Cherokee Kid (Tony) and I left on a marginal afternoon
headed down wind. He pushed a little too hard and landed out some 40
miles from home. I was orbiting above having managed to hang on to a
little bubble. My Folka pal was in his C140 and offered via radio to
come get me if I landed at the nearby airport. Tony on the other hand
was telling me I should land in the field next to him so we could hang
out and de-rig together. For about 20 minutes I couldn't make up my
mind. There was this nice big paved municipal airport 5 miles
downwind and I decided to land in a farm field! It was a great time
with 2 classic wood gliders, local farmers, sunset. Just the best
kind of time. See a photo he

http://picasaweb.google.com/cherokee...63186748116946

Nothing broken. It looks delicate but it's not. Comparing the
fuselage bulkeads to a K6 you will see that the Woodstock is
considerably more substantial. Jim Maupin and Irv Culver were really
sharp guys and they had already designed a lot of stuff prior. The
light weight makes rigging a dream. Even with the old pins and
safeties to fumble with for control hook-ups it still only takes 15
minutes to rig and you only need another person for 5 minutes. The
horizontal tail stays put which makes for a goofy trailer with
outrigger boxes for the tail. Also, the max weight is under 200 lbs
which eliminates a lot of pilots though the cockpit is not
outrageously tiny. The only tweeking I've done is re-rigging the
ailerons to compensate for a slight rolling tendancy. No big deal.
I'm hoping to complete a sport canopy for it which will make it look
totally vintage plus be fun to fly with of course. You are welcome to
come see mine anytime.

Matt

On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 07:44:02 -0800 (PST), Adam
wrote:

On Feb 4, 6:16*am, Stealth Pilot
wrote:
serious question.
in this day and age where the slippery glass reigns supreme are there
any wooden gliders actually worth building ?

if your son was on the way to a glider instructors rating, as mine is,
is there a wooden glider design that would be worth building ?
something with reasonable performance that would be a sheer pleasure
to fly.

something a dad could spring on the kid.

Stealth Pilot

This fellow thinks so!
http://members.aol.com/woodglider/mattart1.htm

http://web.media.mit.edu/~tim/pix/oshkosh03_3/0896.jpg

/Adam

appreciate the photo!
the woodstock was/is a serious contender.
Stealth Pilot