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Busted IFR Checkride



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 22nd 04, 11:28 PM
Jon Kraus
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Default Busted IFR Checkride

Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport... Then
I thought to myself "what are you going to do there pout?" :-) I then
decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride and get it out of the way.
I did OK... not great but passable... This DE made it pretty easy on
me... He was telling me about his IFR checkride and him busting on his
first attempt too... He busted on the holding pattern too so I didn't
feel that bad.. He now has 14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his
busted IFR checkride so I figured why should I... Now I just need to go
back up with my instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go
back up with the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done...
More to follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...

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  #2  
Old April 23rd 04, 12:14 AM
Bob Gardner
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Posts: n/a
Default

Not a biggie. Life goes on. Sorry that it happened, but considering that you
will spend an infinitesimal amount of time actually holding in real life
(not counting doing it to stay current), you got the important stuff behind
you.

Bob Gardner

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport... Then
I thought to myself "what are you going to do there pout?" :-) I then
decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride and get it out of the way.
I did OK... not great but passable... This DE made it pretty easy on
me... He was telling me about his IFR checkride and him busting on his
first attempt too... He busted on the holding pattern too so I didn't
feel that bad.. He now has 14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his
busted IFR checkride so I figured why should I... Now I just need to go
back up with my instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go
back up with the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done...
More to follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...



  #3  
Old April 23rd 04, 12:15 AM
Jon Kraus
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Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks Bob... I figured the same thing... I hear that most people have
never been asked to hold anywhere... how about you? JK

Bob Gardner wrote:

Not a biggie. Life goes on. Sorry that it happened, but considering that you
will spend an infinitesimal amount of time actually holding in real life
(not counting doing it to stay current), you got the important stuff behind
you.

Bob Gardner

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
.. .


Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport... Then
I thought to myself "what are you going to do there pout?" :-) I then
decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride and get it out of the way.
I did OK... not great but passable... This DE made it pretty easy on
me... He was telling me about his IFR checkride and him busting on his
first attempt too... He busted on the holding pattern too so I didn't
feel that bad.. He now has 14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his
busted IFR checkride so I figured why should I... Now I just need to go
back up with my instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go
back up with the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done...
More to follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...








  #4  
Old April 23rd 04, 12:55 AM
Bob Gardner
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Default

Two times stick in my memory: Holding at the Kallispell, MT VORTAC one night on the way into Helena, and holding on the Battleground, WA VORTAC on the way into Portland International. They wouldn't be memorable if it the weather had been nice.

Bob Gardner
"Jon Kraus" wrote in message ...
Thanks Bob... I figured the same thing... I hear that most people have never been asked to hold anywhere... how about you? JK

Bob Gardner wrote:

Not a biggie. Life goes on. Sorry that it happened, but considering that you
will spend an infinitesimal amount of time actually holding in real life
(not counting doing it to stay current), you got the important stuff behind
you.

Bob Gardner

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...

Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn fustrated
that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the airport... Then
I thought to myself "what are you going to do there pout?" :-) I then
decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride and get it out of the way.
I did OK... not great but passable... This DE made it pretty easy on
me... He was telling me about his IFR checkride and him busting on his
first attempt too... He busted on the holding pattern too so I didn't
feel that bad.. He now has 14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his
busted IFR checkride so I figured why should I... Now I just need to go
back up with my instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go
back up with the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done...
More to follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...







  #5  
Old April 23rd 04, 12:59 AM
Andrew Sarangan
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Posts: n/a
Default

I never understood why holding patterns are so damn important. I have
received a holding clearance only once in my life. Why are they required
for the recency experience and the checkride? Also, why are the entry
procedures so important? Is there any example where an incorrect entry
procedure would have caused an accident?







"Bob Gardner" wrote in
news:[email protected]_s02:

Not a biggie. Life goes on. Sorry that it happened, but considering
that you will spend an infinitesimal amount of time actually holding
in real life (not counting doing it to stay current), you got the
important stuff behind you.

Bob Gardner

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that... At first I was so damn
fustrated that I told the DE that I just want to head back to the
airport... Then I thought to myself "what are you going to do there
pout?" :-) I then decided to go ahead with the rest of the ride
and get it out of the way. I did OK... not great but passable...
This DE made it pretty easy on me... He was telling me about his IFR
checkride and him busting on his first attempt too... He busted on
the holding pattern too so I didn't feel that bad.. He now has
14,000+ hours and doesn't worry about his busted IFR checkride so I
figured why should I... Now I just need to go back up with my
instructor once, do the freakn' holding pattern... Go back up with
the DE... do the freakn' holding pattern and be done... More to
follow...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA Argggg...




  #6  
Old April 23rd 04, 01:03 AM
Peter R.
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Posts: n/a
Default

Jon Kraus wrote:

Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that..


What doesn't kill you will only serve to make you stronger.

Sorry about the bust, but good job pulling yourself out of the "feel
sorry for myself slump" into which you almost slid.

BTW, to answer your hold question: FWIW, after flying about 350 hours
IFR (most of those hours were not IMC, mind you) in a spam can in the
busy Northeast US, I have yet to have a hold assigned. Perhaps it was
the fact that I flew most of those hours in a C172 where ground speed
was often measured with two digits, not three. ;-)

--
Peter





  #7  
Old April 23rd 04, 01:07 AM
Jon Kraus
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Default

Allen,

Basically just nerves mostly... A couple of things contributed to that.
One was that I agreed to be this DE's first IFR checkride... that being
so, we had the FAA examiner with us examining him... My oral was 3 hours
long and this about wiped me out... He asked me everything under the
sun... I survived this but the weather took a turn for the worse so we
didn't go up after the oral portion. I was on my way home after the oral
when some turned their car right in front of me and before I could stop
I clipped their back end... First damn accident I have been in in 15
years or so... It kinda shook me up a little but I didn't think it was
too bad... This morning we were to do the flight portion of the
test... I had everything set up for my clearance and was told after take
off to intercept V305 and head north. I was then to to hold at the WELDO
intersection... I was thinking cool I have done exact thing several
times... What I didn't realize is that V305 is real close to V96 and I
had tuned in the wrong redial on the OBS... When things didn't start
centering when they should have I began to double check and caught my
error.. By the time I determined what was wrong I had blown through the
intersection and that threw me for a loop... I got confused and that is
when the DE said that it was an unsat maneuver... Really no excuses...
I blew it and will take responsibility... Look for my post next
Wednesday that I passed the recheck :-)

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL
Student-IA
A Lieberman wrote:

Jon Kraus wrote:


Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that...



Hey Jon,

Appreciate your post. I am getting closer to that time.... What part
of holding did you bust, timing? Entry? Suggestions for my check ride
to come down the road???

Allen



  #8  
Old April 23rd 04, 01:19 AM
David Brooks
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
Jon Kraus wrote:

Took my IFR checkride today and busted... I screwed up the holding
pattern big time and that was that..


BTW, to answer your hold question: FWIW, after flying about 350 hours
IFR (most of those hours were not IMC, mind you) in a spam can in the
busy Northeast US, I have yet to have a hold assigned. Perhaps it was
the fact that I flew most of those hours in a C172 where ground speed
was often measured with two digits, not three. ;-)


As I said recently, fly approaches into a popular untowered airport enough
times, and you'll get held while the controller tries to confirm the guy
before you really landed. For extra credit, do that in IMC. Don't mentally
block the unexpected hold instruction and keep motoring on, or the
controller will have to patiently deliver you back to the fix. No, never
happened to me, not even in training, no siree.

Jon, you're almost there. Hang in.

-- David Brooks


  #9  
Old April 23rd 04, 01:30 AM
Hankal
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Posts: n/a
Default

hanks Bob... I figured the same thing... I hear that most people have
never been asked to hold anywhere... how about you


I only have my IFR ticket for two years and had to hold twice.
Hank
  #10  
Old April 23rd 04, 01:33 AM
Roy Smith
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Default

Andrew Sarangan wrote:

I never understood why holding patterns are so damn important. I have
received a holding clearance only once in my life.


I get them once in a while around New York. Sometimes it's for flow
control, but sometimes it's to meet LOA's. Departing HPN to the
northeast, you typically get vectors to Carmel VOR. There seems to be
an LOA which requires you to cross Carmel at or above 5000 before being
handed off to the next controller. On a hot summer day, sometimes I
can't make 5000 and I get to climb in a hold until I do.

Oddly enough, I've never gotten "cross CMK at or above 5000" as part of
my clearance, but if I'm not at 5000 by the time I get there, I can
pretty much count on getting a hold.

As often as not, the holding instructions (whether for the CMK climb or
for anything else) will be something like "just give me a couple of left
360's right there". I would suggest not trying to demonstrate one of
those on a checkride, though :-)

Why are they required for the recency experience and the checkride?


I suspect in part because they're used so infrequently. Things you
don't do very often are the things you tend to forget and thus need to
practice.

Also, why are the entry procedures so important?


In theory, if you don't use the proper entry, you may stray out of the
protected airspace. However, the protected airspace is so large
compared to the turn radius of a spam can, it's usually not a real
problem.

On the other hand, a lot of the published en-route holds around New York
have notations like "max holding speed 210 kts" (obviously not a problem
for you or me). I can only assume that the limit the holding speed so
they can reduce the size of the protected airspace. In a situation like
that, using the correct entry may indeed be important.
 




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