Radio Procedure - Runway ID

All I ask is that instructors provide documentation for their little quirks.
If the student can't find something to back up the instructor's assertions,
s/he should ask for it.

I guess I am too far from the know-nothing student of 1960 to remember how I
accepted everything unquestionably, only to learn as the years rolled by
that I had been misled.

Bob

"Jose" wrote in message
...
"My instructor told me to..." is not justification for anything.

Well, in all fairness, what =should= we trust instructors for?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jay Honeck wrote:

? Does it matter? Is there a protocol for this?

He's right, there is no leading zero, but most pilots probably feel it's not
worth correcting when they hear it.


Interesting. Both Mary and I were trained to ALWAYS use the leading
zero. Runway 7 is ALWAYS called runway 07.

But there is no leading zero. I just checked and Iowa City has a runway
7, but no 07. For reference:
http://www.aopa.org/members/airports...identifier=IOW


Matt

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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

Does it matter? Is there a protocol for this?

He's right, there is no leading zero, but most pilots probably feel it's not
worth correcting when they hear it.

I wonder if this is just a regional or international thing.

I've heard the preceding zero used constantly at airports
outside North America (YPPH, YSSY, EIDW, and EHAM in particular), so it
might be something carried over from that.. Just a thought.

BL.
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Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
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Interesting. Both Mary and I were trained to ALWAYS use the leading
zero. Runway 7 is ALWAYS called runway 07.

Ah...but this is just another example of an instructor pushing his/her own
ideas as gospel. "My instructor told me to..." is not justification for
anything. Heard it too many times on checkrides.

I suppose you're right -- but this was done by two different CFIIs, in
two different states, separated by 7 years. And my guy was an old
grey-beard, while Mary's was a young buck.

Dang, what're the odds of *both* of us being taught incorrectly?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Casey Wilson" N2310D @ gmail.com wrote in message
news:83T3f.22$oy3.18@trnddc04...
Not particularly germane to this discussion, but KIYK is a non-tower
airport. I was up doing bumps and rounds, AKA touch-n-goes yesterday, and
was dutifully calling out my various positions as any good airman in the
pattern should do.

Now, I was calling the runway as 02, like in "....33Xray, turning left
base, runway Zero-Two, Inyokern." Over the radio comes a voice to admonish
me that, "...there is no zero in front of the two." Never wanting to
rankle a fellow pilot, I dropped the zero -- well, most of the time,
anyway. Thirty-year-old habits are hard to break.

Does it matter? Is there a protocol for this?

The AIM provides radio communication protocols. Unfortunately, section 4-2
(Radio Communications Phraseology and Techniques) is silent on this point.
However, section 4-3 (Airport Operations) gives the example "cleared to land
runway six right", so omitting the zero appears to be the standard
(4-3-11c2).

--Gary

"Jose" wrote in message
...
"My instructor told me to..." is not justification for anything.

Well, in all fairness, what =should= we trust instructors for?

If an instructor is acting as PIC, the instructor should ordinarily be
trusted to control the aircraft (or to direct you as to how to control it),
especially while you are a primary student. An instructor should also be
trusted to make suggestions that are plausible enough to be worth the effort
it takes you to research and verify them. But a pilot should never
permanently delegate verification to the instructor--that's always the PIC's
own responsibility. Factoids that propagate by word of mouth through
successive generations of students, with no one fact-checking along the way,
are not reliable.

--Gary

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
Interesting. Both Mary and I were trained to ALWAYS use the leading
zero. Runway 7 is ALWAYS called runway 07.

Ah...but this is just another example of an instructor pushing his/her
own
ideas as gospel. "My instructor told me to..." is not justification for
anything. Heard it too many times on checkrides.

I suppose you're right -- but this was done by two different CFIIs, in
two different states, separated by 7 years. And my guy was an old
grey-beard, while Mary's was a young buck.

Dang, what're the odds of *both* of us being taught incorrectly?

Pretty high. (See my post about the AIM.)

--Gary

Jay Honeck wrote:
Interesting. Both Mary and I were trained to ALWAYS use the leading
zero. Runway 7 is ALWAYS called runway 07.


Ah...but this is just another example of an instructor pushing his/her own
ideas as gospel. "My instructor told me to..." is not justification for
anything. Heard it too many times on checkrides.


I suppose you're right -- but this was done by two different CFIIs, in
two different states, separated by 7 years. And my guy was an old
grey-beard, while Mary's was a young buck.

Dang, what're the odds of *both* of us being taught incorrectly?

I'd say 100%. :-)


I've had at least 6 different instructors and none have ever suggested a
leading zero on a runway designation. I do believe that leading zeroes
are expected, however, on headings. Don't ask me why the difference...


Matt

All I ask is that instructors provide documentation for their little quirks.
If the student can't find something to back up the instructor's assertions,
s/he should ask for it.

But if the student can find documentation to back up all the
instructor's assertions, then the instructor is pretty much superfluous, no?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Gary Drescher" wrote in message ...
"Casey Wilson" N2310D @ gmail.com wrote in message news:83T3f.22$oy3.18@trnddc04...
Does it matter? Is there a protocol for this?

The AIM provides radio communication protocols. Unfortunately, section 4-2 (Radio Communications Phraseology and
Techniques) is silent on this point. However, section 4-3 (Airport Operations) gives the example "cleared to land
runway six right", so omitting the zero appears to be the standard (4-3-11c2).

--Gary



Also, under 4-3-6, "the runway designation would be 9".