OT - Plasma TV question

I'm considering installing a big-screen plasma (or LCD) TV in our
meeting room at the inn, for use during presentations, etc.

An alternative (and, to me, more important) use of this equipment would
be as "God's Own Flight Simulator" for visiting pilots and their
families to use. I think it would be way cool to have a wall-sized
flight simulator display available for our guests, and it would be a
great way to hook kids of all ages on aviation in general. (Most of
our guests are not pilots, despite the aviation theme...)

It would also be cool to have "movie nights" at the inn, showing
classic aviation movies. 'Top Gun' on a 60 inch plasma TV would be a
great draw!

Sadly, I haven't kept up with this technology, and I notice there are
several competing systems. Also, I'm starting to see the long-awaited
convergence between computers and TV, with Dell offering flat panel
"displays" that look just like TVs.

Is anyone on the 'group an expert with this stuff? Anyone already
own one? Can anyone recommend (or steer me clear from) any brands?
Are all plasma TVs usable as computer monitors, too?

Thanks!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com

Is anyone on the 'group an expert with this stuff? Anyone already
own one? Can anyone recommend (or steer me clear from) any brands?
Are all plasma TVs usable as computer monitors, too?

I'm not an expert, but I have done a bit of research on this for my own
entertainment system.

I have a Sanyo LCD projector that's served me well and I have a pair of
Toshiba Hi-Def displays that I'd buy again, but I don't know any particular
brands to stay away from.

Most modern displays will accept HDMI, composite, S-video and HD component
(Y, Pb, Pr) inputs along with the traditional F-type antenna connector.
Some even accept VGA input, but don't expect it.

You should be able to find a VGA-to-HDMI adapter (or even a single cable
that does the conversion like the one I found) at your local electronics
store. You'll probably need this to display your PC's output on the
display. I'd stay away from VGA-to-S-video or VGA-to-composite adapters as
the quality of the image will suffer greatly.

Another note: If you're planning to allow customers to use it, you'll want
(or, should I say, your customers will certainly appreciate) a cable long
enough to reach the conference table. You might consider a video input
switch to allow switching between your PC and the cable running to the
table.

Another consideration is to ensure you have DVD playback software on the PC.
I know you talked about movie nights, but using the PC as your DVD player
can cut down the "component clutter" a bit.

Depending on your room's layout and construction, a ceiling-mounted
projector can be very cost competitive.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
Reduce spam. Use Sender Policy Framework: http://spf.pobox.com
____________________

("Jay Honeck" wrote)
I'm considering installing a big-screen plasma (or LCD) TV in our meeting
room at the inn, for use during presentations, etc.


My folks recently moved into a new (5 story) Senior Condo building - in a
nice part of town, Woodbury.

The lobby has a sitting area with a fireplace. There's also a big
meeting/reception/dining/TV room and a separate game room, complete with
pool table - on the first floor.

The big meeting room/TV lounge has a sun room attached to it. Off the sun
room is a large wrap-around deck. It's all very, very nice.

Someone stole the 52"(?) wall mounted flat screen TV, three nights ago.

So, if you buy one ($$plasma$$) ...secure that sucker with a theft-proof
bracket, like it's a safe with $3,500 dollars in it!!!

Just a thought.


Montblack

"John T" wrote

I'm not an expert, but I have done a bit of research on this for my own
entertainment system.

I have a Sanyo LCD projector that's served me well and I have a pair of
Toshiba Hi-Def displays that I'd buy again, but I don't know any
particular
brands to stay away from.

I would go with a projector, also, but would use a DLP (digital light
processor) driven projector.

You want at least 2000 contrast, and 2500 lumens, I would think.
--
Jim in NC

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
I would go with a projector, also, but would use a DLP (digital light
processor) driven projector.

You want at least 2000 contrast, and 2500 lumens, I would think.

Um, okay. What's a "digital light processor"? And who makes these
projectors?

DLP is basically a bunch of REALLY tiny mirrors that can be electronically
controlled. Good price/performance ratio, but not without drawbacks:
economical DLP projectors use a single DLP chip for all three colors,
switching from red to green to blue to red again (usually using a spinning
color wheel). For some people, this creates a rainbow effect, especially if
your eyes move while watching the screen. At large projections sizes, they
can suffer from the "screen-door effect" (visible lines between the
individual pixels). Also, contrast ratio can be limited, because the
mirrors can only move so much (so you always get a little bit of light
reflected from each one, no matter how "black" the signal).

Of course, contrast ratio is an issue with all display technologies, and
frankly only the technology that has been with us for decades (CRT) has the
least problem with the issue.

You can also choose normal CRT projection (probably still the best quality,
but also still the most expensive), LCoS (liquid crystal on silicon, a
relatively new technology, similar to DLP), LCD, and of course plasma.
Frankly, none are a silver bullet. Each technology involves a compromise,
be it price, performance, convenience, etc.

One big downside to plasma is the issue of burn-in. They are getting
better, but you can still wind up with latent images of an image that stays
on the screen for extended periods of time. This might be a TV channel
logo, a ticker from CNN, computer graphics, or whatever. Another downside
is that the lifetime of the display itself is somewhat limited, as it fades
over time. Plasma displays are also VERY heavy, consume a lot of power, and
generate a lot of heat. They do look VERY nice though.

Projectors (whether DLP or LCD...CRT projectors are expensive) can be
economical, but to get the best performance, you still have to spend money.
Otherwise, image brightness is an issue, as is resolution, along with the
issues I mentioned at the beginning of this post.

IMHO, right now a good flat-panel LCD provides a pretty good bang for the
buck. LCDs are much more tolerant of static images, they are nice and
bright, you can get decent resolution, and there's only the one component
(no projector to fuss around with...all projectors require calibration on
setup and sometimes later too, and bulbs to replace now and then). They are
also lighter, and less power-hungry than plasma.

The other thing I don't like about projection systems is that it's hard to
get a perfectly flat projection screen, unless you paint it right onto the
wall or spend a LOT of $$$ on the screen itself (which negates much of the
usual cost savings for a projection system). But I'm very nitpicky...for
many people, the occasional ripple in the image isn't a big deal.

As for cost, what do you want to spend? You can get a decent display of
pretty much any technology, in the 60" ballpark, for between $5000 and
$10000. One "nice" thing about projectors is that you aren't committed to a
particular display size when you buy it; you simply sacrifice brightness as
you get bigger, for a given projector. As much as I personally would go
with a flat-panel over a projector most of the time, it's hard to beat the
cost for a projector, and there are lots of choices out there that don't
suck, even without paying an arm and a leg.

You can even go cheaper than $5000 if you want, especially if the room isn't
too bright. A friend of mine put together a DLP-based system, with a 10'
diagonal screen, and if I recall his total cost was just over $3000 (most of
which was the projector). Brightness is an issue (curtains for the room
help quite a bit), and the DLP artifacts do bother me a little, but it's
hard to argue with the price, and the system does do what it's supposed to.

Pete

Jay Honeck wrote:
I'm considering installing a big-screen plasma (or LCD) TV in our
meeting room at the inn, for use during presentations, etc.

An alternative (and, to me, more important) use of this equipment would
be as "God's Own Flight Simulator" for visiting pilots and their
families to use. I think it would be way cool to have a wall-sized
flight simulator display available for our guests, and it would be a
great way to hook kids of all ages on aviation in general. (Most of
our guests are not pilots, despite the aviation theme...)

It would also be cool to have "movie nights" at the inn, showing
classic aviation movies. 'Top Gun' on a 60 inch plasma TV would be a
great draw!

Sadly, I haven't kept up with this technology, and I notice there are
several competing systems. Also, I'm starting to see the long-awaited
convergence between computers and TV, with Dell offering flat panel
"displays" that look just like TVs.

Is anyone on the 'group an expert with this stuff? Anyone already
own one? Can anyone recommend (or steer me clear from) any brands?
Are all plasma TVs usable as computer monitors, too?

I'm not an expert on this stuff, so let me get that out of the way right
upfront. My employer, however, is the world's largest maker of glass
for flat panel displays and we have a plasma, DLP and LCD TV display in
our R&D center. I often look at them as I'm walking by and to my eye,
the LCD TV is consistently the best looking, however all three are very
nice. Each has advantages and disadvantages.

The main drawbacks to plasma are screen burn-in and power consumption
and heat output. The latter aren't that big a deal, but the former is.
We had plasma flat panel displays installed around our facility 4-5
years ago to display company news, etc. and they are all having to be
replaced now due to really bad burn-in. For TV use, this isn't as big a
deal as the picture is constantly changing. However, for certain
applications such as ours where we had a stock ticker across the bottom
which had a color band which didn't change often, the burn-in is very
quick (it was noticeable in less than two years).

The main drawback to LCD is cost, although this is catching up to plasma
quickly, and sometimes problems with fast motion. You get a "shadow"
following the action due to the somewhat slower response of the LCD as
compared to plasma or DLP. Also, they aren't yet available in sizes as
large as plasma.

I'm less familiar with DLP, but I believe it has a problem called
"rainbow" affect due to the use of a color wheel for RGB generation.
Another unknown is how long those little MEMS mirrors will last as they
are wiggled to and fro billions of times.

Personally, I'd lean toward LCD unless I really needed the size offered
by plasma.


Matt

Morgans wrote:

"John T" wrote


I'm not an expert, but I have done a bit of research on this for my own
entertainment system.

I have a Sanyo LCD projector that's served me well and I have a pair of
Toshiba Hi-Def displays that I'd buy again, but I don't know any

particular

brands to stay away from.


I would go with a projector, also, but would use a DLP (digital light
processor) driven projector.

You want at least 2000 contrast, and 2500 lumens, I would think.

Yes, and many projectors don't do well with normal ambient light levels
during the daytime. And the projectors that do handle this well, tend
to eat those $200 light bulbs are a high rate. Unless this will be in
an area that Jay can keep a little dark, I'd shy away from a projector.
They simply generate the light levels required for daytime use in a
room with unshaded windows.


Matt

I also vote for the DLP projector.

I have a friend who is an A/V fanatic. He is building a
screening room in his house using one. He just installed
the projection screen...138 inch diagonal. Projection
throw is less than 10 feet.

The projector input is from a computer with DVD software
for watching movies.

I am tempted to bring my PC over to try Flight Sim on it.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Quake "predictions": http://www.skywise711.com/quakes/EQDB/index.html
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

Jay Honeck wrote:

I would go with a projector, also, but would use a DLP (digital light
processor) driven projector.

You want at least 2000 contrast, and 2500 lumens, I would think.


Um, okay. What's a "digital light processor"? And who makes these
projectors?

It is a MEMS device consisting of an array of millions of really small
mirrors that steer light onto or not onto each pixel on the scree. TI
makes the DLP chip, but lots of folks use their chips to make TVs and
projectors.


Any idea on cost? I hadn't even considered a projector, as they
always seem too dim.

You'll pay $5000 for a decent one and yes they are relatively dim as
compared to the flat panel TVs, either plasma or LCD.


Matt

"Jay Honeck" wrote

Um, okay. What's a "digital light processor"? And who makes these
projectors?

Any idea on cost? I hadn't even considered a projector, as they
always seem too dim.

You will do the best if you google it, for more detail that I could give,
but I'll give you a quickie! g

DLP is a chip made by Texas instruments, that has found its way into many
brands of projectors. They are much improved over the dim projectors of a
couple years ago, and much sharper image is possible. Prices range from
around $700, with a $1500 dollar unit most likely in the quality and
brightness range that you will be looking for. You can certainly spend much
more than that, too.

The chip is best described as a surface of thousands of very, very small
individual mirrors, with a hinge on one side. When an area of a picture is
to have light on it, a voltage to that one mirror is applied, and it pivots
up a few degrees, projecting the light towards the optics, and eventually,
the screen.

Powering the light is usually a metal halide (or is it quartz) bulb, which
shines through a spinning color wheel, with all the colors of the rainbow
gradually progressing around the circle. When blue is supposed to be on a
portion of the screen, the DLP waits for the right shade of blue to appear
on the color wheel, then it tilts all of the little mirrors up to capture
that color and send it onto the screen.

DLP does not degrade over time. The bulb is the only thing that will go
bad, then it is replaced. Plasma units are said to have a burn in problem,
and the picture loses quality over time. LED units lose clarity and
brightness over time, also.

Do a Google, and you will be amazed, I think.
--
Jim in NC