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#41
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Discus verus Discus 2, LS8, ASW 28
Bruce Greef wrote: I would apportion a certain amount of weight to Ben's observations. But I still don't know what his observations were, only what his conclusion is. Has he flown multple contests with top ranking pilots flying ASW28's or is the conclusion based on just flying with one unknown pilot at his/her local airport. I'm not trying to be difficult. I'd really like to know how he reached this conclusion particularly as it does not agree with my observations based on several hundred hours in type. Andy |
#42
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Discus verus Discus 2, LS8, ASW 28
Tom Smith wrote:
Tom, I'm happy to see that you share my view that the DG-303 is incomparably better than the rest of the standard class field, and that any disparity in competition achievement is probably due to the relative quality of the pilots and/or numbers of aircraft built. Jack, You’re clearly suffering from a serious case of delusion! Your equating the DG-303 with the 2006 Carerra GT in their respective fields was apt indeed, though the 'turd' reference was perhaps a little harsh on the competition. I note that you are not a member of SSA. From what material does one usually build a glider in your corner of the universe? Funny you should ask; the rest of the universe has been wondering the same thing about your corner. We had concluded that your glider manufacturers had discovered how to isolate and work the ugly atom. Perhaps you could confirm or dispel these rumours. Many thanks, Tom See: http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/ http://www.glidersport.net/ http://www.continuo.com/marske/ http://www.agcsc.org/sgs_1_34_info.html http://www.windward-performance.com/ http://www.ssa.org/JohnsonLWBX/Genesis2%202000-03.pdf The problem is not a lack of appreciation for either aerodynamics or aesthetics, but a matter of production costs and exchange rates. Those challenges will be overcome. Jack |
#43
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Quote:
Mr Flewett won the most recent GP in NZ against the worlds best pilots. Find the google valve, Andy, and release some air into the vacuum around your part of the world, you may find it refreshing. Bagmaker |
#44
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Discus verus Discus 2, LS8, ASW 28
Jack wrote:
Tom Smith wrote: Tom, I'm happy to see that you share my view that the DG-303 is incomparably better than the rest of the standard class field, and that any disparity in competition achievement is probably due to the relative quality of the pilots and/or numbers of aircraft built. Jack, You’re clearly suffering from a serious case of delusion! Your equating the DG-303 with the 2006 Carerra GT in their respective fields was apt indeed, though the 'turd' reference was perhaps a little harsh on the competition. I note that you are not a member of SSA. From what material does one usually build a glider in your corner of the universe? Funny you should ask; the rest of the universe has been wondering the same thing about your corner. We had concluded that your glider manufacturers had discovered how to isolate and work the ugly atom. Perhaps you could confirm or dispel these rumours. Many thanks, Tom See: http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/ http://www.glidersport.net/ http://www.continuo.com/marske/ http://www.agcsc.org/sgs_1_34_info.html http://www.windward-performance.com/ http://www.ssa.org/JohnsonLWBX/Genesis2%202000-03.pdf The problem is not a lack of appreciation for either aerodynamics or aesthetics, but a matter of production costs and exchange rates. Those challenges will be overcome. We're sure taking care of the exchange rate portion of the problem :-p Shawn P.S. Happy Halloween! Of all the hijacked religious holidays, this one has the best movies. :-) |
#45
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Discus verus Discus 2, LS8, ASW 28
Shawn wrote:
Jack wrote: Tom Smith wrote: Tom, I'm happy to see that you share my view that the DG-303 is incomparably better than the rest of the standard class field, and that any disparity in competition achievement is probably due to the relative quality of the pilots and/or numbers of aircraft built. Jack, You’re clearly suffering from a serious case of delusion! Your equating the DG-303 with the 2006 Carerra GT in their respective fields was apt indeed, though the 'turd' reference was perhaps a little harsh on the competition. I note that you are not a member of SSA. From what material does one usually build a glider in your corner of the universe? Funny you should ask; the rest of the universe has been wondering the same thing about your corner. We had concluded that your glider manufacturers had discovered how to isolate and work the ugly atom. Perhaps you could confirm or dispel these rumours. Many thanks, Tom See: http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/ http://www.glidersport.net/ http://www.continuo.com/marske/ http://www.agcsc.org/sgs_1_34_info.html http://www.windward-performance.com/ http://www.ssa.org/JohnsonLWBX/Genesis2%202000-03.pdf The problem is not a lack of appreciation for either aerodynamics or aesthetics, but a matter of production costs and exchange rates. Those challenges will be overcome. We're sure taking care of the exchange rate portion of the problem :-p Not, obviously, by direct assault. Nanotech might do it, unless you actually wanted a glider big enough for your body. Jack |
#46
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Discus verus Discus 2, LS8, ASW 28
Andy wrote:
Bruce Greef wrote: I would apportion a certain amount of weight to Ben's observations. But I still don't know what his observations were, only what his conclusion is. Has he flown multple contests with top ranking pilots flying ASW28's or is the conclusion based on just flying with one unknown pilot at his/her local airport. I'm not trying to be difficult. I'd really like to know how he reached this conclusion particularly as it does not agree with my observations based on several hundred hours in type. Andy Andy, you don't get in the top 100, let alone the top 10 IGC rank without doing an enormous amount of very competitive flying. The differences between the top aircraft is very small - far less than that between pilots. Various people maintain that the variation within a production run of a particular glider is larger than the nominal difference between different makes. So again - my observation is that when it comes to those aspects of performance that favour top contest pilots in winning contests it appears that the D2 and LS8 have the current edge. This is partially a self perpetuating thing, as they build confidence and experience in and demand for these models - the up and comings look at their choices when deciding what to fly to be competitive (as evidenced in this discussion)and go out and fly what the winners are flying. In the broader type of flying that the average pilot will do it is not nearly as clear which glider is better - because the question becomes "Better at what?". So for example - my personal aircraft is the Standard Cirrus that cleaned up in the Southern Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) and South African contest scene in 1970-71 in the hands of Ted Pearson. Top pilot, and the best glider at the time for winning contests. As a current club class 36 year old, with me in the seat (less competitive, less experienced, less talented, more fun XC oriented) there are many of the aircraft it beat then, that are easier to live with. I even got beaten by a Phoebus IIb in the last regionals. Bottom line - you have to be a bit better to extract the most from the racing oriented design, but it does have a little more to give. If you are able to extract that last 1% and the compromises required to get it don't phase you then you know which is the "best" design. Flying against some other (newer) Std Cirri has shown wide variances, some are worse, some are so much better as to make one wonder if this is the same design. Off the point I suppose. Ben and others' view is that the Discus 2a is the best design available for Standard Class racing. Given that this has to be at least partially a subjective view, one can't really differ. If you vary the metric to include any subset of the best finish, or longevity, or ergonomics or value for money or safety or comfort or manufacturer support or any other thing that is relevant to your decision then you can make a meaningful comparison. |
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