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Siemens Electric Airplane Makes U.S. Debut



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 30th 18, 04:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Larry Dighera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,839
Default Siemens Electric Airplane Makes U.S. Debut


https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/new...-230531-1.html

Siemens Electric Airplane Makes U.S. Debut

By Mary Grady | March 29, 2018

Siemens brought its prototype electric aircraft to the U.S. this week
for the first time, showcasing the airplane at the company’s
Innovation Day in Chicago. “Electric propulsion is one of the
transformative technologies that will help the industry meet the goals
of reduced fuel, emissions and noise,” said Teri Hamlin, vice
president of electric propulsion for Siemens. “By accomplishing
testing on our systems on select flying testbeds in the lower power
classes, we are gaining valuable experience and knowledge that
accelerates and validates our other developments in hybrid-electric
propulsion systems in the high power classes.” Further testing of the
technology will take place in Waco, Texas, at the Texas State
Technical College Airfield.

The Texas facility will become home to the eFusion aircraft, a flying
test bed featuring the Siemens 55-kw electric propulsion unit, the
company said. The Texas facility also will be key in data collection
on new electric propulsion systems, enabling safety standards and
certification efforts for the aerospace market. Siemens also is
working with Airbus on the “City Airbus” demonstrator, a VTOL designed
for urban mobility. That aircraft will fly for the first time later
this year, Siemens said. The company also said recently it will
collaborate with Airbus and Rolls-Royce to further develop innovations
in the field of hybrid electric propulsion.



view on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_9-V73nT1k

Comments (8)

" meet the goals of reduced fuel, emissions and noise,"

Who set those goals?
I want faster, less expensive, and easier to update/change.
I don't want expensive, sketchy support, low range, and
business-as-usual part 91/43.
I don't think the goals they have match with the customer....

Posted by: Mark Fraser | March 29, 2018 9:59 AM


I can't wait to spend $500K for a coal burning airplane that will run
for 20 minutes.

Posted by: Leo LeBoeuf | March 29, 2018 12:39 PM


I continue to be befuddled by the notion that -- somehow -- an
electric airplane (or car) doesn't use energy. Hmmm ... maybe it grows
on trees and I didn't get that memo?

Unless and until the little green aliens give up the secret of how
their UFO's fly, an electric airplane is nothing more than a gimmick
with today's battery energy density levels. Then again, maybe its a
hybrid and they've put a little popup windmill on this thing to
recharge the battery? :-)

And the notion that they'll be able to build a commercially viable and
certificated airplane exceeds the bounds of reality. At the speed with
which the FAA operates ... it's more likely that the Sun will become a
red dwarf first.

All they're doing is transferring the place where the pollution occurs
from the vehicle to the power generation plant. I guess they haven't
figured that out?

Posted by: Larry Stencel | March 29, 2018 1:20 PM



There are tremendous benefits to electric airplane beyond cleanliness:
- Eliminations of dozens of expensive components for holding,
conveying, and mixing fuel, then getting riding of the combusted
materials: fuel caps, tanks and lines, fuel drains, fuel selectors,
mixture controls, carbs, spark plugs, magnetos, pistons, rings, valves
and springs, pushrods, cylinders, turbos, mufflers, exhaust pipes and
brackets, air cleaners, many cooling components, etc
- All the other stuff you can forget about:: oil consumption, exhaust
stains, fuel stains, alternators, getting on a ladder to refuel a
high-wing.
- No reciprocating engine parts.
- Reduced vibration = less stress on airframes, props, etc. = lighter
components.
- No combustion noise.
- The equivalent of refilling the tank doesn't add weight..
- Reduced likelihood of fire.
- Torque!
- No loss of power with altitude.

I think flight schools will be the first big market, which will
require quick-change battery modules.

I think getting the range and carrying capacity of my 210 will take
longer, but I'd love to have a two-seater electric as a second plane
ASAP.

Posted by: Art Friedman | March 29, 2018 4:11 PM


You might want to talk with Boeing, Art, regarding the reduced
liklihood of a fire.....

Posted by: YARS (Tom Yarsley) | March 29, 2018 5:59 PM

YARS, are you referring to Trans World Airlines Flight 800 (TWA 800) ,
a Boeing 747-100 that exploded and crashed into the Atlantic Ocean
near East Moriches, New York, on July 17, 1996 due to fuel tank
explosion?

What cynics fail to comprehend is that it is the 98% efficiency of
electric propulsion that enables it to compete with ~30% efficient
petroleum-based engines.

And then there is the fact that the current world population of 7.2
billion is projected to reach 9.6 billion by 2050, according to a
United Nations report; that's a 29% increase in the number of people
consuming resources within 32 years Continuing to treat Earth's
environment as a boundless open-system is shortsighted if not
criminal....


Is there any indication of what the power to weight ratio would be? If
the airshow performance only runs 5 mins, you wouldn't need crap loads
of batteries, no?

Posted by: Craig Spirko | March 29, 2018 10:25 PM


If you have never driven an electric vehicle (EV), you probably just
can't understand what a huge difference there is in operating one vs
and internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle. It's not evolutionary,
it's revolutionary. I own a Chevy Bolt and despite it's limitation,
which are mostly related to infrastructure, I never want to own
another ICE car.

Sure, you are not going to be flying an electric plane cross country
anytime soon, though it may be sooner than you think. But for an
ab-initio trainer, I don't see how you could do better than electric.

As far as expense goes, there is basically no maintenance on an
electric vehicle but tires, and I suppose brakes for a plane. Those
electrons that power it are about 1/3 to 1/2 the price of equivalent
energy for auto gas. You can do the numbers for avgas.

The current Airplane Geeks podcast talks a lot about this topic.

Finally, nobody has ever said that electric vehicles don't use energy.
That assertion as well as people stating that is a common claim of
proponents is patently ridiculous. EVs do two thing. First they are
generally more end-to-end efficient. This is a really hard number to
come up with but the best estimates are that on average, in a car,
they use 1/2 to 1/3 the energy of a ICE vehicle. That's average. You
can come up with edge conditions in both directions. Second they
enable very flexible sourcing of energy, from fossil fuels to solar,
wind, atomic, fuel cells etc. And driving an EV is just pure fun!

Ron

Posted by: Ron Steele | March 30, 2018 8:35 AM


Electric cars are NOT revolutionary, they are evolutionary. 120+ years
of electric cars has relegated them to platypus status because
evolution has shown that they can't compete. They still can't compete
and can only survive in safe spaces away from the real world of
transport.

LOL, infrastructure building to support niche "green" vehicles takes a
LOT of coil/oil/gas and then it takes VAST areas of land to actually
get enough solar power to run anything more than a 1000# death trap of
a car. There again, evolution will weed out the weak....

Posted by: Mark Fraser | March 30, 2018 9:13 AM





Anyone who transcends beyond casual skepticism understands that to be
truly blackhearted is to know that cynicism is the smoke that curls up
from burned dreams.
--Paul Bertorelli


Ads
  #2  
Old April 5th 18, 03:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Larry Dighera
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,839
Default Siemens Electric Airplane Makes U.S. Debut


https://www.flyingmag.com/electric-a...-than-expected

Electric Aircraft Might Become an Industry Standard Sooner than
Expected

The aviation industry is on the verge of a major shift in propulsion,
experts say.

By Rob Mark April 3, 2018
2 Comments
Siemens Magnus Innovation Day

Siemens Magnus featured a clear cowling for a look under the hood.

Rob Mark

As part of Siemens Innovation Day held recently in Chicago – created,
in part, to highlight the company’s progress to date in the world of
electric and hybrid electric aircraft – the German industrial giant
offered a first U.S. look at its electric GA aircraft, a Magnus LSA
fitted with a 55-kW Siemens electric motor.

Siemens vice president of electric and hybrid-electric propulsion
Terry Hamlin said the company has no intention of becoming an OEM but
wants to be part of the electric solution to the aviation industry by
partnering with other companies to demonstrate its expertise in
designing and building electric propulsion systems. Siemens is
currently working closely with Airbus and Rolls-Royce on the eFan
regional airplane.

Hamlin said Siemens believes “the aviation industry is on the verge of
a major shift in propulsion,” focused around three main drivers. “One
is a reduction in [fossil] fuel consumption. Another is a significant
reduction in emissions that can only be met by really disruptive
technologies. Finally, there’s the needed reduction in aircraft
noise.”

Greg Bowles agrees too that a significant change is coming to aircraft
propulsion. As the General Aviation Manufacturers Association’s vice
president of global innovation and policy, he manages the
association’s electric propulsion and innovation committee.

Siemens says electric will become an industry standard by 2050 with a
move to electrification already moving along much faster than the
company expected.

“We might have a market ramp-up to a certified electric system by
2021, possibly before the end of 2020. We’ll be partnering with OEMs
to help them integrate and maintain these electric systems,” Hamlin
said.

The Chicago event also focused on how Siemens is currently working to
bring electric aircraft to the marketplace, beginning with small
aircraft like the Magnus and the Extra 330LE. Siemens used the Extra
in 2017 to set a world speed and climb record in electric airplanes.
The electrically powered Extra achieved a top speed of 211 mph and a
climb record to 9,800 feet in four minutes 22 seconds.

Siemens is also blending the cyber and the physical worlds into its
production process to reduce time to market for new products like a
bearing shield displayed in Chicago. The shield is used in the Extra
330LE’s electric motor. When the original bearing shield was created,
Siemens team created a digital twin that allowed them to continue
redesigning, testing and optimizing a new version in a virtual reality
world. Results were impressive as the original part was reduced in
weight from 25 pounds to just 9 pounds.
Siemens Magnus Innovation Day

The Magnus is only capable of short flights at present.

Siemens

“With every R&D dollar we’re moving toward increased power density and
reduce weight on battery,” Hamlin said. She spoke to one of the newest
frontiers in aviation, urban mobility concepts like electrically
powered air taxis where the demand is for quiet VTOL aircraft capable
of spanning intra-city distances. “Battery power is also expected to
change flight training, Hamlin added.

Bowles reminds the naysayers of electric power plants about earlier
days in aviation when people said jet engines weren’t going to be all
that useful.

“People wondered what good jet engines would be on straight wing
aircraft or an aircraft that only flew at low altitudes demanded where
jet power plants were quite inefficient. We simply designed aircraft
that could take advantage of those new technologies. We need to think
of battery power the same way. What additional advantages might
electric offer us? Although electric motors become less efficient at
very low speeds, they can make torque down to nearly zero RPM.”
Want more news like this?

Argon National Labs predicts a 3 to 5 percent annual improvement in
battery density. While there’s only enough energy at present for an
hour flight, that fuel tank will keep growing by 5 percent per year.
Pipistrel’s Alpha Electro is already certified
https://www.flyingmag.com/pipistrels...-certification
for flight training in Canada, but still faces a regulatory hurdle
here in the U.S. based on the FAA’s definitions of an LSA powerplant.
Until that’s changed, the Alpha can’t be used for flight training in
the U.S. Bowles agreed that regulatory changes “can be a
time-consuming and painful process.”

------------------

NoItAllMakesSenseNow • 19 hours ago

The correct name is “Argonne National Laboratory,” not “Argon
National Labs.”



Lardo140 • 19 hours ago

"Argon National Labs predicts a 3 to 5 percent annual improvement
in battery density. While there’s only enough energy at present for an
hour flight, that fuel tank will keep growing by 5 percent per year."

At that rate it will take nearly 14-1/2 years to get to two hours
flight time. That doesn't sound to me like the "verge of a major shift
in propulsion".





On Fri, 30 Mar 2018 08:14:56 -0700, Larry Dighera
wrote:


https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/new...-230531-1.html

Siemens Electric Airplane Makes U.S. Debut

By Mary Grady | March 29, 2018

Siemens brought its prototype electric aircraft to the U.S. this week
for the first time, showcasing the airplane at the company’s
Innovation Day in Chicago. “Electric propulsion is one of the
transformative technologies that will help the industry meet the goals
of reduced fuel, emissions and noise,” said Teri Hamlin, vice
president of electric propulsion for Siemens. “By accomplishing
testing on our systems on select flying testbeds in the lower power
classes, we are gaining valuable experience and knowledge that
accelerates and validates our other developments in hybrid-electric
propulsion systems in the high power classes.” Further testing of the
technology will take place in Waco, Texas, at the Texas State
Technical College Airfield.

The Texas facility will become home to the eFusion aircraft, a flying
test bed featuring the Siemens 55-kw electric propulsion unit, the
company said. The Texas facility also will be key in data collection
on new electric propulsion systems, enabling safety standards and
certification efforts for the aerospace market. Siemens also is
working with Airbus on the “City Airbus” demonstrator, a VTOL designed
for urban mobility. That aircraft will fly for the first time later
this year, Siemens said. The company also said recently it will
collaborate with Airbus and Rolls-Royce to further develop innovations
in the field of hybrid electric propulsion.



view on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_9-V73nT1k

Comments (8)

" meet the goals of reduced fuel, emissions and noise,"

Who set those goals?
I want faster, less expensive, and easier to update/change.
I don't want expensive, sketchy support, low range, and
business-as-usual part 91/43.
I don't think the goals they have match with the customer....

Posted by: Mark Fraser | March 29, 2018 9:59 AM


I can't wait to spend $500K for a coal burning airplane that will run
for 20 minutes.

Posted by: Leo LeBoeuf | March 29, 2018 12:39 PM


I continue to be befuddled by the notion that -- somehow -- an
electric airplane (or car) doesn't use energy. Hmmm ... maybe it grows
on trees and I didn't get that memo?

Unless and until the little green aliens give up the secret of how
their UFO's fly, an electric airplane is nothing more than a gimmick
with today's battery energy density levels. Then again, maybe its a
hybrid and they've put a little popup windmill on this thing to
recharge the battery? :-)

And the notion that they'll be able to build a commercially viable and
certificated airplane exceeds the bounds of reality. At the speed with
which the FAA operates ... it's more likely that the Sun will become a
red dwarf first.

All they're doing is transferring the place where the pollution occurs
from the vehicle to the power generation plant. I guess they haven't
figured that out?

Posted by: Larry Stencel | March 29, 2018 1:20 PM



There are tremendous benefits to electric airplane beyond cleanliness:
- Eliminations of dozens of expensive components for holding,
conveying, and mixing fuel, then getting riding of the combusted
materials: fuel caps, tanks and lines, fuel drains, fuel selectors,
mixture controls, carbs, spark plugs, magnetos, pistons, rings, valves
and springs, pushrods, cylinders, turbos, mufflers, exhaust pipes and
brackets, air cleaners, many cooling components, etc
- All the other stuff you can forget about:: oil consumption, exhaust
stains, fuel stains, alternators, getting on a ladder to refuel a
high-wing.
- No reciprocating engine parts.
- Reduced vibration = less stress on airframes, props, etc. = lighter
components.
- No combustion noise.
- The equivalent of refilling the tank doesn't add weight..
- Reduced likelihood of fire.
- Torque!
- No loss of power with altitude.

I think flight schools will be the first big market, which will
require quick-change battery modules.

I think getting the range and carrying capacity of my 210 will take
longer, but I'd love to have a two-seater electric as a second plane
ASAP.

Posted by: Art Friedman | March 29, 2018 4:11 PM


You might want to talk with Boeing, Art, regarding the reduced
liklihood of a fire.....

Posted by: YARS (Tom Yarsley) | March 29, 2018 5:59 PM

YARS, are you referring to Trans World Airlines Flight 800 (TWA 800) ,
a Boeing 747-100 that exploded and crashed into the Atlantic Ocean
near East Moriches, New York, on July 17, 1996 due to fuel tank
explosion?

What cynics fail to comprehend is that it is the 98% efficiency of
electric propulsion that enables it to compete with ~30% efficient
petroleum-based engines.

And then there is the fact that the current world population of 7.2
billion is projected to reach 9.6 billion by 2050, according to a
United Nations report; that's a 29% increase in the number of people
consuming resources within 32 years Continuing to treat Earth's
environment as a boundless open-system is shortsighted if not
criminal....


Is there any indication of what the power to weight ratio would be? If
the airshow performance only runs 5 mins, you wouldn't need crap loads
of batteries, no?

Posted by: Craig Spirko | March 29, 2018 10:25 PM


If you have never driven an electric vehicle (EV), you probably just
can't understand what a huge difference there is in operating one vs
and internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle. It's not evolutionary,
it's revolutionary. I own a Chevy Bolt and despite it's limitation,
which are mostly related to infrastructure, I never want to own
another ICE car.

Sure, you are not going to be flying an electric plane cross country
anytime soon, though it may be sooner than you think. But for an
ab-initio trainer, I don't see how you could do better than electric.

As far as expense goes, there is basically no maintenance on an
electric vehicle but tires, and I suppose brakes for a plane. Those
electrons that power it are about 1/3 to 1/2 the price of equivalent
energy for auto gas. You can do the numbers for avgas.

The current Airplane Geeks podcast talks a lot about this topic.

Finally, nobody has ever said that electric vehicles don't use energy.
That assertion as well as people stating that is a common claim of
proponents is patently ridiculous. EVs do two thing. First they are
generally more end-to-end efficient. This is a really hard number to
come up with but the best estimates are that on average, in a car,
they use 1/2 to 1/3 the energy of a ICE vehicle. That's average. You
can come up with edge conditions in both directions. Second they
enable very flexible sourcing of energy, from fossil fuels to solar,
wind, atomic, fuel cells etc. And driving an EV is just pure fun!

Ron

Posted by: Ron Steele | March 30, 2018 8:35 AM


Electric cars are NOT revolutionary, they are evolutionary. 120+ years
of electric cars has relegated them to platypus status because
evolution has shown that they can't compete. They still can't compete
and can only survive in safe spaces away from the real world of
transport.

LOL, infrastructure building to support niche "green" vehicles takes a
LOT of coil/oil/gas and then it takes VAST areas of land to actually
get enough solar power to run anything more than a 1000# death trap of
a car. There again, evolution will weed out the weak....

Posted by: Mark Fraser | March 30, 2018 9:13 AM





Anyone who transcends beyond casual skepticism understands that to be
truly blackhearted is to know that cynicism is the smoke that curls up
from burned dreams.
--Paul Bertorelli

 




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