A bit breezy today...

On Monday, February 3, 2014 11:52:52 AM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
Dan Marotta wrote:



What is your real name?

Where do you fly?

What is your social security number?



I've given plenty of hints, and lots of people have guessed correctly, but my mama taught me well, to never give my real name, age, or personally identifying details to other kids that I meet on the internet.



It's also fun when I meet someone new in soaring circles and they match up my "in-world" person with Son_of_Flubber in less than five minutes. So in the interest of maximizing fun, I can only say, "I am Spartacus." Game not over.

If you are too embarrassed to give your real name I can only imagine how Flubber feels. Children can be such a disappointment at times. Thank goodness for you he was a Flubber and not a ******.

On Sunday, February 2, 2014 8:26:17 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Saturday, February 1, 2014 10:49:57 AM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:

There are a bunch of extremely cheap ones available that may or may not work and carry no guarantee. Not sure I would trust the readings from a piece of junk.

A plug for NK Instruments Kestrel weather meters. Significantly more useful than many of the ones cited here and developed by my friend and (reasonably) well known glider-guider Richard Kellerman. These instruments are used by firefighters, smoke jumpers, and all people in all sorts of other demanding occupations. Base models can be had for under $100 from major online retailers, and full featured models that include things like pressure, density altitude, relative humidity, etc. are available for a around $200.

http://www.nkhome.com/kestrel/

On Monday, February 3, 2014 2:32:11 PM UTC-5, Papa3 wrote:

A plug for NK Instruments Kestrel weather meters.

Very nice. The Kestrel line is far superior to the ones I posted above and the Amazon prices are comparable.

At $76, there is no excuse for me to not have one of these when I fly at an airport without WX station.

http://www.amazon.com/Kestrel-1000-P...estrel+weather

The internet at the airport and my Ipod Touch provides much better big picture weather data, so I think that accurate real-time wind is the only thing that I'm really missing. If I were out in the wilderness fighting forest fires, I would want one of the more expensive instruments.

Most people know that the Kestrel is a small hawk that flies into the wind to feed on insects. I often see them in the air.

On Monday, February 3, 2014 2:25:41 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:

At $76, there is no excuse for me to not have one of these when I fly at an airport without WX station.

The internet at the airport and my Ipod Touch provides much better big picture weather data, so I think that accurate real-time wind is the only thing that I'm really missing. If I were out in the wilderness fighting forest fires, I would want one of the more expensive instruments.

You need a wind meter to tell you if you can fly?

Seriously???

Hmmm - a blade of grass, wet finger, or (really high tech) a wind sock should give you all you need to know.

How do you land?

Kirk
66

PS IMO, not giving at least your first name (or racing callsign) is kinda rude. I'm glad I don't have your level of paranoia - oh, hi there NSA!

On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 17:26:17 -0800, son_of_flubber wrote:

On Saturday, February 1, 2014 10:49:57 AM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:

You could buy yourself a hand-held anemometer: the Davis units are very
good and don't cost an arm and a leg.

That would make my observations more objective.

Here is the current Davis model
http://www.amazon.com/Brand-Davis-El...r-Category/dp/
B00FBQUV5W/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1391390303&sr=8-20&keywords=anemometer%
3ADavis

That's exactly the same as mine. Its a surprise to see it still on the
market considering that I got mine some time before the October 1990, UK
Team Trials in an attempt to make sense of my competition scores in Free
Flight F1A glider flying: that is the first competition I have on record.

It is exceedingly free running: it will start and stabilise at around 0.6
kts if I walk across my living room with it.

I think any of the units with axial flow turbines and IR rpm sensing
should be OK. The turbine is probably better protected than the units
with a set of vertical axis cups on the top. I also have a suspicion that
those with a bigger turbine should be better because they should be less
affected by boundary layer effects within the duct.

I like this device and it also gives a direct readout of dewpoint
http://www.amazon.com/Extech-45158-W...r-Humidity/dp/
B00023RVRU/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1391389210&sr=8-16&keywords=anemometer
Same price as the Davis digital.

So I notice. The hinged cover is a nice touch because you can't lose it.
My Davis came with a soft slip case that you remove before use. Some of
the others I've seen on offer don't appear to have any covers which means
there's no protection for the turbine or its bearings when its not in use.

However, I wonder it you really need the other things it measures. Temp
is nice and even useful. However, do you need it to measure humidity?
Having the canopy mist up when you get in and close it, when it simply
mists up as you tow out first thing in the morning or after landing
toward the end of a fall day is a pretty good indication that this isn't
a good time to commit aviation. Besides, a simple humidity measurement
isn't a sure fire indication whether misting will or won't occur.

Here is a knockoff of a similar design, not waterproof and no dewpoint
measurement
http://www.amazon.com/WeatherHawk-SM...eld-Yellow/dp/
B0000AY6UV/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1391390405&sr=8-10&keywords=anemometer

Indeed. In fact, there's every likelihood this this is identical with the
Extech 45118 and I'd bet money that the cases on the two Extechs and this
one all came out of the same mould. IOW all three are Chinese OEM
equipment and the two wind+temp models differ only in custom case colours
and the names stamped on them.

This Davis model is not pocket sized but it is a robust mechanical
design.
http://www.amazon.com/Davis-Wizard-M...-Indicator/dp/
B001DSUKXK/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1391388408&sr=8-7&keywords=anemometer%
3ADavis

I personally wouldn't go for this one as its almost certainly measuring
wind pressure against a plate or the angle through which a vane is
deflected. If you want this type of system, you can make it yourself even
more cheaply. All you need is a pingpong ball, school protractor, spirit
level, a bit of 12 lb nylon fishing line and a bit of wooden broom handle.

This type of instrument is accurate to around 3%. The wood forms the
handle. You glue the protractor and level to one end so you can hold it
with the zero line exactly level. about 18ins of nylon line comes out of
a hole drilled through the centre point of the protractor and has the
pingpong ball on the other end. The windspeed is read from the deflection
from vertical of the nylon line. Years back 'Scientific American'
described this instrument and included the table for converting angle to
windspeed. Pingpong balls are are made to such close weight and size
tolerances that no calibration is needed.

There are a bunch of extremely cheap ones available that may or may not
work and carry no guarantee. Not sure I would trust the readings from a
piece of junk.

Its easy to check them. Outdoors you can compare with a car's speedo, but
don't forget to do it on a flat calm day and average readings in opposite
directions to eliminate wind effects: its very unusual to see less then 1
m/s outdoors. Check the speedo with a measured distance (your runway?)
and a stopwatch.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Mon, 03 Feb 2014 11:32:11 -0800, Papa3 wrote:

On Sunday, February 2, 2014 8:26:17 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Saturday, February 1, 2014 10:49:57 AM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:

There are a bunch of extremely cheap ones available that may or may not
work and carry no guarantee. Not sure I would trust the readings from
a piece of junk.

A plug for NK Instruments Kestrel weather meters. Significantly more
useful than many of the ones cited here and developed by my friend and
(reasonably) well known glider-guider Richard Kellerman. These
instruments are used by firefighters, smoke jumpers, and all people in
all sorts of other demanding occupations. Base models can be had for
under $100 from major online retailers, and full featured models that
include things like pressure, density altitude, relative humidity, etc.
are available for a around $200.

http://www.nkhome.com/kestrel/

Agree. The Kestrel and the Davis instruments are similar in quality and
in the same general price range.

I see that Davis have a new handheld unit with no moving parts. It uses
an ultrasonic sensor. Has anybody seen one in use or heard anything about
them?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Monday, February 3, 2014 3:38:46 PM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:

You need a wind meter to tell you if you can fly?

I agree that most days are obvious go or no-go. But I know that I do not estimate reliably on the rough but flyable days without seeing a few gliders take off and land. I'm especially bad at estimating gusts. A few knots make a big difference in energy and risk on the rough days.

I'm especially bad at noticing when conditions deteriorate from marginally acceptable to ridiculous and the discipline of using a meter will help me set and abide by some objective personal limits.

Crosswind gusts are also known to vary along the length of our runway due to terrain and buildings, and they vary with small deviations in wind direction. So I'm curious to walk along the length of the runway and evaluate the part of the story told by our solitary windsock.

I'm guessing that a meter will over time help me hone my ability to estimate current wind.

How do you land?

I try hard to land once per launch, and of course I use the windsock and those trees on the edge of the runway. The meter reading is most relevant to launch.

So Kirk, you're saying that you don't check the automated weather broadcast wind numbers before you launch? (We don't have WX broadcast at my home airport.) I also like to check the weather radar before launch because lots of times the forecast thunderstorms are tracking well to the north or south.

I may have asked for your height, weight, SSAN, bank account number, and
favorite beer, but I did NOT ask for your name!

Just curious where you fly so I can check it out on google maps.

"son_of_flubber" wrote in message
...
Dan Marotta wrote:

What is your real name?
Where do you fly?
What is your social security number?

I've given plenty of hints, and lots of people have guessed correctly, but
my mama taught me well, to never give my real name, age, or personally
identifying details to other kids that I meet on the internet.

It's also fun when I meet someone new in soaring circles and they match up
my "in-world" person with Son_of_Flubber in less than five minutes. So in
the interest of maximizing fun, I can only say, "I am Spartacus." Game
not over.

Couldn't you could hold the wind-o-meter out the window in the pattern to
gauge the winds? ...And when you're walking the runway taking measurements,
don't forget to keep your head down!


"son_of_flubber" wrote in message
...
On Monday, February 3, 2014 3:38:46 PM UTC-5, kirk.stant wrote:

You need a wind meter to tell you if you can fly?

I agree that most days are obvious go or no-go. But I know that I do not
estimate reliably on the rough but flyable days without seeing a few gliders
take off and land. I'm especially bad at estimating gusts. A few knots make
a big difference in energy and risk on the rough days.

I'm especially bad at noticing when conditions deteriorate from marginally
acceptable to ridiculous and the discipline of using a meter will help me
set and abide by some objective personal limits.

Crosswind gusts are also known to vary along the length of our runway due to
terrain and buildings, and they vary with small deviations in wind
direction. So I'm curious to walk along the length of the runway and
evaluate the part of the story told by our solitary windsock.

I'm guessing that a meter will over time help me hone my ability to estimate
current wind.

How do you land?

I try hard to land once per launch, and of course I use the windsock and
those trees on the edge of the runway. The meter reading is most relevant
to launch.

So Kirk, you're saying that you don't check the automated weather broadcast
wind numbers before you launch? (We don't have WX broadcast at my home
airport.) I also like to check the weather radar before launch because lots
of times the forecast thunderstorms are tracking well to the north or south.

On Monday, February 3, 2014 6:23:50 PM UTC-6, son_of_flubber wrote:


So Kirk, you're saying that you don't check the automated weather broadcast wind numbers before you launch? (We don't have WX broadcast at my home airport.) I also like to check the weather radar before launch because lots of times the forecast thunderstorms are tracking well to the north or south.

That's right, I don't check it. I look at the windsock on our hangar, and take a moment to see what the wind is doing at our field (which also doesn't have a WX broadcast). If I'm planning an XC flight I'll look at the XCSkies wind forecasts for the times of the flight, and of course keep an eye on large scale changes (approaching storms, etc). But at takeoff? I look out the window to see if there is a lull or gust or thermal, and plan accordingly.

But I don't obsess about a few knots, and am happy taking off or landing a bit downwind if it makes the operations smoother or safer (common to land the towplanes downwind to save turnaround time).

It's more the quality (gusty or variable) vs the quantity (raw velocity) of the wind that I care about. For example, I know with a westerly crosswind there will be turbulence once we get out of the wind shadow of the hangar. That is not going to be in any automated report ;^).

But hey - nothing wrong with using every tool at your disposal. My cockpit is testament to that (lots of gizmos)!

And I must admit that I fly mostly from either desert or flatland sites, which may not have the conditions you have to cope with. So please don't take my comments as being derogatory! Just having a little fun on RAS...waiting for the snow to start falling again...

Cheers!

Kirk
66