Separating the men from the boys

Doug- What's wrong with 200 feet? BRBR


Welll, been a while since I've been in and I have been known to fly less than
500 ft AGL on occasion but isn't the OPNAV min for non combat ops 500 feet??
Was when I was flyin'...Lower for the A-G guys that completed a 'step down'
program?? This was a F-14, VF-213...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

On 11/2/03 9:56 AM, in article ,
"Pechs1" wrote:

Doug- What's wrong with 200 feet? BRBR


Welll, been a while since I've been in and I have been known to fly less than
500 ft AGL on occasion but isn't the OPNAV min for non combat ops 500 feet??
Was when I was flyin'...Lower for the A-G guys that completed a 'step down'
program?? This was a F-14, VF-213...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Since I'm in a squadron with a 500 FT AGL SOP, I don't exercise my 200 FT
muscles any more but...

Back in the day when I flew VA (the REAL Medium Attack kind--not that
Corsair stuff), our SOP called for a 200 FT AGL minalt that we flew at very
regularly--500 FT AGL night/IMC.

IIRC, OPNAV 3710... Series currently calls for a minalt of 200 FT.

And... the VFA FRS LATT syllabi have waivers that allow them a 100 FT
demo--not comfortable with the IP's in the trunk. The current LATT dive
recovery rules of 25 for 1500, 15 for 750, 5 for 250 (and 20 for 1,000, 10
for 500, and 5 for 250... again IIRC) reflect a 200 FT AGL minalt too.

I may peruse the 3710 one more time though to make sure I'm not telling
tales out of school. It's been a while since I've put my eyeballs on that
particular page.

--Woody

Woody,

Back in the day when I flew VA (the REAL Medium Attack kind--not that
Corsair stuff), our SOP called for a 200 FT AGL minalt that we flew at very
regularly--500 FT AGL night/IMC.

My recollection as well, from the early 1970s.

Not sure, but I THINK that on the OB-16 route (Eastern Oregon canyons) A-6s
were authorized lower than 500 AGL at night if the system was tight and the
crew felt OK about things.

Owl sends.
--
Mike Kanze

436 Greenbrier Road
Half Moon Bay, California 94019-2259
USA

650-726-7890

"When was the last time in world history in which 'suicide' and 'martyrdom'
were the code of enlightened action admired by any society?"

- Roy Fassel (WALL STREET JOURNAL, 10/27/03)


"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...
On 11/2/03 9:56 AM, in article
,
"Pechs1" wrote:
[rest snipped]

"Pechs1" wrote in message
...
rmoore- Flying at 200 feet we did 90-degree
turns
at 550 mph BRBR


Oopps. I'm sure he meant 500 feet....

I've done more than a couple of TARPS hops when some legs of the mission
were down at 200 ft AGL. My first flight with Hunyack on the boat was the
standard Hunyack-1 arrival. At about 50 miles out, we descended down to 200
ft over the water then he pushed it down to about 50 feet at about 550
knots. That's how we came into the break. If it were anybody else, CAG would
have pitched him off the fantail afterwards, but because it was Hunyack,
nothing of consequence (that a lowly LTJG would know about) ever happened.

__!_!__
Gizmo

If it were anybody else, CAG wouldhave pitched him off the fantail
afterwards, but because it was Hunyack,nothing of consequence (that a lowly
LTJG would know about) ever happened

Why the special dispensation?

"JamesF1110" wrote in message
...
If it were anybody else, CAG wouldhave pitched him off the fantail
afterwards, but because it was Hunyack,nothing of consequence (that a
lowly
LTJG would know about) ever happened

Why the special dispensation?

I have no idea other than the fact that he was a helluva stick. Not very
smart and certainly not a great administrator (he left that area up to his
XO, J.L. Johnson, who was later CNO), but he was a great pilot.

__!_!__
Gizmo

On Sat, 01 Nov 2003 02:46:44 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote:


Below is an article written by Rick Reilly of Sports Illustrated.
He details his experiences when given the opportunity to fly in a
F-14 Tomcat.


Reminds me of the Jerry Reed F-16 monologue.




***********************************************
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Co-founder of newsgroup - RAMN
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Hmmm. We usually didn't go below 300 feet in populated areas of the US
- too many phones. But we were going up low-level to Ku-ni range in
Korea, out of Kunsan, four in loose tactical, 420 KIAS, when lead said
"Go Low!" We all squatted down on the deck and went under a high
tension line thatwasn't on our maps - Korean imporvement that hadn't
got to our level yet. We did learm to fly very low level there,
though. Came in handy flying out of DaNang. When the invasion started
in March 72 the monsoon was on - we had to skyspot and loran-drop for
a week or so. Then the weather cleared and we went up to hit a
barracks complex by Vinh. Out over the water, 420 and 200 ASL, abotu
40 miles out to sea. About halfway up we passed, on the sea side, 5
USN DDs, in line ahead. Each one was flying 2 big US flags - must have
been 25 feet long - from the yardarms. I had thought only the RN flew
battle flags. Seen against the buildups over the land, bright sun,
blue water, the sight really pumped me up! Turning inbound we pushed
it up to 500 and let down to 50 ASL. Popped in AB crossing the beach,
rolled in at 14,000 for 45 dive with release at 8000. Looked at
target, flak looked like the USN in the Battle for Okinawa only viewed
from the kamikaze side. I wished I'd figured for a release at 10 but .
.. . Eight of us dropped 6 CBU52 apiece and got out of Dodge. We all
dodged the golden bbs. The CBUs smothered the complex; never did get
any BDA.
The DDs were headed back down the coast as we RTB'd. The beautiful
sight of those ships has stayed with me all of 30+ years.
Walt BJ

Thanks, Walt! That was a hell of a visual...

v/r
Gordon

You're welcome, Gordon. It was comforting knowing the Navy was out
there on our route to and from Pack 1. On a later strike, in April 72,
a SeaKing picked up one of my crews just north of the DMZ. We had
struck a SA2 site NE of Bat lake and #3 in the first flight got a 37
hit just crossing the beach. They lost an engine, were on fire, made
it out over the water, ejected successfully and were in their rafts as
we came back out after hitting the site. (We did kill the radar van,
the primary target) I went up to 15K and to max endurance as their
leader was in a low CAP right over them. I sent my guys off to either
find a tanker or get a quick turnaround while RESCAP was paged. Their
leader went bingo so I descended slowly while waiting for a pickup.
The two guys in their rafts - Charlie Hall and Lee Bohner - were
chatting back and forth on their survival radios - sounded cool, like
they were floating around off Miami Beach! About then a real big
camouflaged helicopter came in from the north. I was on a high downwnd
taking a real good look at him while resetting the sight to 38 mils
for strafe (F4E - with a gun!) But it turned out to be a CH53 USN type
in sand and green splotch camo - had never seen one like that before,
and at first I had thought it was one of the big USSR ones. Just then
a USN Seaking (white and orange!) showed up - he'd been on a mail run
around the ships out there and heard the beeper and then saw the smoke
from the F4. They picked up my crew and dropped them off in our area
at Danang about 15 minutes after we got back. Found out later Charlie
was shelling them with 122mm guns during the pickup! Great service -
too bad the Seaking crew couldn't stay the night, though.
Walt BJ