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Any Canadians Who Can Provide Numbers on a Champ, Taylorcraft, or Luscombe with Warp Drive Propeller?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 19th 03, 03:08 AM
Larry Smith
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Default Any Canadians Who Can Provide Numbers on a Champ, Taylorcraft, or Luscombe with Warp Drive Propeller?

Looking for data on how much better, if any, one of the subject aircraft
performs with a Warp Drive or similiar prop.

We can't install anything but certified wood props (or expensive aluminum
ones) on our old birds. Thus, what we need is hard data so maybe we can
approach FAA to let us convert to carbon fiber props.

Information on Powerfins, Ivoprops, and anything else would be helpful too.
Thanks.


  #2  
Old December 19th 03, 11:13 PM
EDR
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Default

In article , Larry Smith
wrote:

Looking for data on how much better, if any, one of the subject aircraft
performs with a Warp Drive or similiar prop.
We can't install anything but certified wood props (or expensive aluminum
ones) on our old birds. Thus, what we need is hard data so maybe we can
approach FAA to let us convert to carbon fiber props.


I fly a 65 hp 1945 Champ with an aluminum prop. I have seen Warp Drive
props on friends Ezes. The coning scares me! Setting them to the proper
angle is tricky.
  #3  
Old December 20th 03, 12:05 AM
Larry Smith
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"EDR" wrote in message
...
In article , Larry Smith
wrote:

Looking for data on how much better, if any, one of the subject aircraft
performs with a Warp Drive or similiar prop.
We can't install anything but certified wood props (or expensive

aluminum
ones) on our old birds. Thus, what we need is hard data so maybe we can
approach FAA to let us convert to carbon fiber props.


I fly a 65 hp 1945 Champ with an aluminum prop.


Let me guess. A 7444? 7443? McCauley or Sensenich? Those props are
hard to find used and a new one is over $2500. Look in the ACS catalog.
I'd like to have one on my 65hp Taylorcraft but stay with the wooden
Sensenich 7442, which is much less efficient than your aluminum prop.

OTOH, a Warp Drive would cost $500 and is more efficient, if what I hear
from Canadian fliers with A-65's and Warp Drives on their certified birds
like Champs, Chiefs, Taylorcrafts, 120's, and Luscombes is accurate.

I have seen Warp Drive
props on friends Ezes. The coning scares me! Setting them to the proper
angle is tricky.


You can set one with ease. No big deal with the right tool, just a matter
of setting the same angle for each blade. Wouldn't it be nice to have a
ground-adjustable prop? What's "coning"?

I have never heard of a catastophic failure of one of these carbon fiber
propellers. With its high strength-to-weight ratio and the characteristic
stiffness of carbon, it is the ultimate material for propellers --- better
than steel, aluminum, wood, or any other material.

A friend of mine dinged the wooden prop on his 160 HP RV-6, and he filled
the ding with JB Weld, according to the fashion. A few weeks later he's at
8500 feet when the prop section about 14" long lets go at the stress riser.
He was barely able to make it back to a field and was afraid the vibration
would pull the engine off the mount.

Yeah, I'd go with an aluminum prop but don't want to pay 2.5k for one. Why
can't I use a Warp Drive which is ground-adjustable, state-of-the-art, more
efficient and costs so much less?

There's something wrong here. You can buy the finest forged steel Carrillo
connecting rods for a tenth of what rods cost from Teledyne Continental.
TCM wants something like $800 for two connecting rods to replace condemned
rods they had Cornell Forge make for them -- and which are unsafe because
they disintegrate in flight, and are the subject of a TCM critical service
bulletin. Something's not right.


  #4  
Old December 20th 03, 03:06 AM
Ron Wanttaja
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Default

On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:05:53 -0500, "Larry Smith"
wrote:

"EDR" wrote in message
...

I have seen Warp Drive
props on friends Ezes. The coning scares me!


What's "coning"?


The prop blades bending forward...the prop disk defines a shallow cone
(open end frontward, of course) under load.

Ron Wanttaja
  #5  
Old December 20th 03, 04:06 PM
Larry Smith
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Default


"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:05:53 -0500, "Larry Smith"
wrote:

"EDR" wrote in message
...

I have seen Warp Drive
props on friends Ezes. The coning scares me!


What's "coning"?


The prop blades bending forward...the prop disk defines a shallow cone
(open end frontward, of course) under load.

Ron Wanttaja


Thanks. As usual the big R comes through. I've seen the phenomenon but
it's not bothersome to someone knowing the great strength and elasticity
modulus of carbon fiber. Where is testimony that a blade has failed?
There is gossip about an Ivoprop but is it true?


  #6  
Old December 20th 03, 09:54 PM
Drew Dalgleish
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Default

On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:06:12 -0500, "Larry Smith"
wrote:


"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:05:53 -0500, "Larry Smith"


Thanks. As usual the big R comes through. I've seen the phenomenon but
it's not bothersome to someone knowing the great strength and elasticity
modulus of carbon fiber. Where is testimony that a blade has failed?
There is gossip about an Ivoprop but is it true?


I have a warp drive 70" 3 blade prop on my murphy rebel with an 0-290
engine. I'm very satisfied with the prop and have had no problems with
mine. It's fairly easy to change the pitch takes about an hour
including retourquing and safety wiring everything. You need to check
the torque on the clamp bolts every 25 hrs.
There have been some reports of cracked blades on high compression
engines. It's suspected that the negative power pulses at idle speed
is what causes the cracking.
Drew Dalgleish
Centralia Ont.
  #7  
Old December 21st 03, 09:01 PM
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Default

Thanks. As usual the big R comes through. I've seen the phenomenon but
it's not bothersome to someone knowing the great strength and elasticity
modulus of carbon fiber. Where is testimony that a blade has failed?
There is gossip about an Ivoprop but is it true?


A friend of mine has a 4 blade on his 180hp Lyc Rebel on floats. He
flies all year including a annual trip to the Arctic (he's located
about 100miles north of the US border so this isn't a quick trip)

He had to land once on a lake with about 3-4 foot rollers when heavy
(2K+) and he had spray coming over the windshield etc. Either the
prop dipped into the water or something as afterwards he found
one blade cracked along the root holder. He maintains his machine like
a certified so he grounded the airplane and was on to warp about it
pdq. They said he could fly with it as is ie it was still servicable
and it wouldn't hurt anything. I think he said he only flew it a few
minutes before getting too paranoid about it. He called warp and they
replaced the blade for free. They said at that time his was the first
damaged blade they had seen and that was in 2000. He still swears by
it even though I think he's thinking about a hoffman or the like so
he can nudge closer to mach 1 on floats...

Even under owner maintained you won't be able to swap a warp for a
certified blade. The ministry will tend to frown on such things. You
could get a stc and hope they will let you spec a warp but as its not
certified you are going to have to be reaaal lucky to get it through.
The fee is $900 loonies plus engineering fees which means it will
probably be cheaper to buy a new plane by the end f it all ;-]

Q

  #8  
Old December 21st 03, 10:39 PM
Drew Dalgleish
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Default

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:01:57 GMT, " quipbid
wrote:

Snip nice rebel story
Even under owner maintained you won't be able to swap a warp for a
certified blade. The ministry will tend to frown on such things. You
could get a stc and hope they will let you spec a warp but as its not
certified you are going to have to be reaaal lucky to get it through.
The fee is $900 loonies plus engineering fees which means it will
probably be cheaper to buy a new plane by the end f it all ;-]

Q

I haven't heard of aircraft registered in the owner maintenance class
requiring an STC for anything before. Where did you get this
information from? I was under the impression that pretty much
anything goes. That's how we end up with corvette powered sea-bees
Drew Dalgleish
 




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