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Osprey vs. Harrier



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 7th 03, 10:40 PM
Stephen D. Poe
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Default Osprey vs. Harrier

Brian Allardice wrote:
These damned things [Osprey} have been fluttering around for better than 30 years. How
long do you have to flog a dying concept for it to loose the "revolutionary"
label. Is that simply another way of saying "It doesn't bloody work yet"?
When was the last time someone called the Harrier 'revolutionary'? Of course,
the Harrier does work.....

Cheers,
dba


Very poor choice of plane to compare it to.

To quote a recent article:
"They know this drill all too well because the Harrier is the most
dangerous airplane flying in the U.S. military today.

Over the last three decades, it has amassed the highest rate of major
accidents of any Air Force, Navy, Army or Marine plane now in service.
Forty-five Marines have died in 143 noncombat accidents since the corps
bought the so-called jump jet from the British in 1971. More than a
third of the fleet has been lost to accidents.

The toll has been little noted by the public and the media because the
Harrier tends to kill pilots one at a time. In contrast, the V-22
Osprey, a problem-plagued troop transport plane, has killed as many as
19 Marines in a single crash.

The Harrier and the Osprey are the first two planes the Marine Corps has
acquired in pursuing its long-range vertical vision. A third plane is
under active development and several others are being conceived."
- http://www.latimes.com/news/specials...ier-day1.story

Please note I'm not knocking the Harrier.

Anytime you develop a totally new type of aircraft and have to also
develop new operational concepts you get fatal accidents. Go back and
review the early days of everything from the Harrier to the early jets
and helicopters.

Also note the operational requirements are inherently more dangerous
than, say, circumstances where you rarely, if ever, fly below several
thousand feet.

It's not that the Osprey is more dangerous or has resulted in more
fatalities than many of the older planes, it that we've become less
tolerant of failures during R&D T&E.
  #2  
Old August 8th 03, 07:43 AM
Tony Williams
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Default

"Stephen D. Poe" wrote in message ...

To quote a recent article:
"They know this drill all too well because the Harrier is the most
dangerous airplane flying in the U.S. military today.

Over the last three decades, it has amassed the highest rate of major
accidents of any Air Force, Navy, Army or Marine plane now in service.
Forty-five Marines have died in 143 noncombat accidents since the corps
bought the so-called jump jet from the British in 1971. More than a
third of the fleet has been lost to accidents.


As a matter of interest, how does that compare with the accident rate
experienced with conventional naval/marine planes flying from
carriers?

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Discussion forum at: http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/
  #3  
Old August 8th 03, 12:42 PM
Moggycat
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Default

"Stephen D. Poe" wrote

"They know this drill all too well because the Harrier is the most
dangerous airplane flying in the U.S. military today.


Correction on behalf of Peter Rieden and co:

"The Harrier is flown by some of the most dangerous pilots in the U.S.
military today."
  #4  
Old August 8th 03, 01:18 PM
John Halliwell
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Default

In article , Stephen D. Poe
writes
Anytime you develop a totally new type of aircraft and have to also
develop new operational concepts you get fatal accidents. Go back and
review the early days of everything from the Harrier to the early jets
and helicopters.


The Harrier didn't do too badly in US service at the start, they had a
period of nearly two years accident free.

Also note the operational requirements are inherently more dangerous
than, say, circumstances where you rarely, if ever, fly below several
thousand feet.


The Harrier regularly operates in an environment unique to itself,
basically zero air speed very close to the ground. If anything happens
it's game over, all the pilot can do is pull the handle. No other
aircraft is intentionally put in the same situation (choppers can auto-
rotate if needed). STOVL JSF has a more complicated system with more
failure points.

It's not that the Osprey is more dangerous or has resulted in more
fatalities than many of the older planes, it that we've become less
tolerant of failures during R&D T&E.


The problem with the Osprey is the inability to demonstrate the problems
have been fixed. It's a very complex creature and Bell/Boeing are
determined to try to fix it (tilt-rotor being their pet technology)
rather than look at other alternatives which may have fewer built in
problems.

--
John
  #6  
Old August 8th 03, 03:32 PM
ANDREW ROBERT BREEN
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Default

In article ,
John Halliwell wrote:

The problem with the Osprey is the inability to demonstrate the problems
have been fixed. It's a very complex creature and Bell/Boeing are
determined to try to fix it (tilt-rotor being their pet technology)
rather than look at other alternatives which may have fewer built in
problems.


I'm aware I've said this before, but it seems an awful complicated
way of avoiding building a Rotodyne..

--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)
 




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