declining membership

I think part of the reason for the decline in soaring
is the rapid expansion of urban areas, I used to fly
back in teh 70s, and there were 3 gliderports within
an hours drive. They have all closed due to the expansion
of suburbia. The closest field with decent soaring
is now over 2 hours away each way. That takes 4 hours
out of a weekend day just to drive! After a grueling
week at work, spending a half day in a car driving
to & from a gliderport is more than I can take. I
will be retiring soon, and intend to jump back in,
but I'm already spending at least 2 hrs a day commuting,
and I can't stand the thought of doubling that on weekends!

I live on the wrong side of town... it is 25 miles across town and then
another 20 miles to the glider club... luckily on most days it is less than
an hour 1 way. The next closest club is on the right side of town... but at
least a 90 minute drive one way.

And that's when I started soaring.

BT

"Peter Gadd" wrote in message
...
I think part of the reason for the decline in soaring
is the rapid expansion of urban areas, I used to fly
back in teh 70s, and there were 3 gliderports within
an hours drive. They have all closed due to the expansion
of suburbia. The closest field with decent soaring
is now over 2 hours away each way. That takes 4 hours
out of a weekend day just to drive! After a grueling
week at work, spending a half day in a car driving
to & from a gliderport is more than I can take. I
will be retiring soon, and intend to jump back in,
but I'm already spending at least 2 hrs a day commuting,
and I can't stand the thought of doubling that on weekends!

Peter - that may explain why there are fewer gliderports, but not fewer
pilots.

I live in Phoenix, which has for 30ish years now has enjoyed the presence of
Turf Soaring on the northwest side and Estrella on the south. If anything
they should be enjoying more business, not less, especially considering the
order of magnitude growth in the area since those operations began. I've
previously stated on this newsgroup my opinions on why participation in the
sport is declining and won't repeat them here, but I believe it has little
to do with urban expansion. Much more to do with numbers of military trained
pilots since WWII and competition from other sports. It ain't as easy to
become a pilot as it used to be, either.

Anecdote: when I started gliding lessons in Fall 2003, I did so at Estrella,
which was closest to my home in Tempe. I've been an active skydiver in
southern AZ since 1988 and in all that time I had never heard of Arizona
Soaring or Estrella Sailport. No print or radio advertisement, not even any
tourist-visit-us brochures in the rack of them you see in hotel lobbies. I
was greatly surprised that in 15 years I had never heard of Estrella, and it
was in my own backyard. In fact, the only reason I knew about it was that my
boss had started flying there earlier in the year!

Anecdote 2: In my hotel room here at the Marriott TownePlace Suites in
Hawthorne, CA, there is a rack of sight-seers brochures in the lobby. There
is a brochure for Skydive Elsinore, energetically touting the reader to make
a parachute jump. There is gliderport at the same field, and another one at
Warner Springs less than an hour away. But no brochures from either
gliderport in the rack. Why not?

-Ted in Tempe

"Peter Gadd" wrote in message
...
I think part of the reason for the decline in soaring
is the rapid expansion of urban areas, I used to fly
back in teh 70s, and there were 3 gliderports within
an hours drive. They have all closed due to the expansion
of suburbia. The closest field with decent soaring
is now over 2 hours away each way. That takes 4 hours
out of a weekend day just to drive! After a grueling
week at work, spending a half day in a car driving
to & from a gliderport is more than I can take. I
will be retiring soon, and intend to jump back in,
but I'm already spending at least 2 hrs a day commuting,
and I can't stand the thought of doubling that on weekends!

Tell me about it.

Driving is hard work.

Back in the last millenium when I learned to soar at Estrella (1974 or 5?
without looking at my log) they had a very large billboard on I-10 at the
turn-off to Maricopa that had a giant 2-32 on it and I'm sure that's what
caught my eye (and everyone else's) on trips to Tuscon or other points
south. I would bet that billboard provided them a lot of ride business, as
well as the occasional student through private certificate. I think it was
an hour's drive from Mesa, maybe more.

Today I drive almost 3 hours one way each weekend over a mountain range to
Ephrata, but the soaring is well worth it. I used to drive over an hour from
home in CT to Wurtsboro for some pretty good soaring in the early season,
but not nearly as good and consistent as the conditions at Ephrata
year-round. In Belgium, it was at least 2 hours from Tervuren to the
Kortrijk Glider Club.

Like many hobbies and sports, it's impossible to rationally justify the time
and cost of soaring, you just have to like doing it. I mean - one could be
into Formula car or J-boat racing or camp-cruising in Wayfarers - the time
commitment and cost may be similar depending on the toy.

Jim


"Ted Wagner" wrote in message
news:1106885548.221f54f69f4f905d8b35a85cbdd020a2@t eranews...
Peter - that may explain why there are fewer gliderports, but not fewer
pilots.

I live in Phoenix, which has for 30ish years now has enjoyed the presence
of Turf Soaring on the northwest side and Estrella on the south. If
anything they should be enjoying more business, not less, especially
considering the order of magnitude growth in the area since those
operations began. I've previously stated on this newsgroup my opinions on
why participation in the sport is declining and won't repeat them here,
but I believe it has little to do with urban expansion. Much more to do
with numbers of military trained pilots since WWII and competition from
other sports. It ain't as easy to become a pilot as it used to be, either.

Anecdote: when I started gliding lessons in Fall 2003, I did so at
Estrella, which was closest to my home in Tempe. I've been an active
skydiver in southern AZ since 1988 and in all that time I had never heard
of Arizona Soaring or Estrella Sailport. No print or radio advertisement,
not even any tourist-visit-us brochures in the rack of them you see in
hotel lobbies. I was greatly surprised that in 15 years I had never heard
of Estrella, and it was in my own backyard. In fact, the only reason I
knew about it was that my boss had started flying there earlier in the
year!

Anecdote 2: In my hotel room here at the Marriott TownePlace Suites in
Hawthorne, CA, there is a rack of sight-seers brochures in the lobby.
There is a brochure for Skydive Elsinore, energetically touting the reader
to make a parachute jump. There is gliderport at the same field, and
another one at Warner Springs less than an hour away. But no brochures
from either gliderport in the rack. Why not?

-Ted in Tempe

"Peter Gadd" wrote in message
...
I think part of the reason for the decline in soaring
is the rapid expansion of urban areas, I used to fly
back in teh 70s, and there were 3 gliderports within
an hours drive. They have all closed due to the expansion
of suburbia. The closest field with decent soaring
is now over 2 hours away each way. That takes 4 hours
out of a weekend day just to drive! After a grueling
week at work, spending a half day in a car driving
to & from a gliderport is more than I can take. I
will be retiring soon, and intend to jump back in,
but I'm already spending at least 2 hrs a day commuting,
and I can't stand the thought of doubling that on weekends!

Heavy, well said and right on dude........you rock!

Brad

Peter - that may explain why there are fewer gliderports, but not fewer
pilots.

I live in Phoenix, which has for 30ish years now has enjoyed the presence
of Turf Soaring on the northwest side and Estrella on the south. If
anything they should be enjoying more business, not less, especially
considering the order of magnitude growth in the area since those
operations began. I've previously stated on this newsgroup my opinions on
why participation in the sport is declining and won't repeat them here,
but I believe it has little to do with urban expansion. Much more to do
with numbers of military trained pilots since WWII and competition from
other sports. It ain't as easy to become a pilot as it used to be, either.

We do not advertise.. we are a weekend club, we accept members every
"training season".. and as we approach this time of year, we have to turn
some away.. we are "full". Our instructors and equipment is max'd out.. as a
weekend club there are only so many training hours in a day. We have a
waiting list.. Our "training season" begins in September. I'll agree that we
have one primary trainer, one advanced trainer and one tow plane, and two
other gliders for those already solo'd or checked out. We are looking at
whether to buy another training glider, and maybe have to pick up a second
tow plane... but the other short fall... we need tow pilots.. tail wheel,
high performance qualified.

We run into the "expand or stay the same".... need $$ to expand.. and need
members to support the expansion.. which came first the chicken or the egg.
For a weekend club it is a tough call.. for a full time club.. full time
employees.. it would be doable.

Now there are two additional commercial "tourist ride" and "glider training"
glider companies on the same field... let's see if they can survive. For
those of you who come up to Jean every spring from AZ... drop me a line..
we'll get you the information for "mid week tows"..

BT

In the UK we are suffering the same problem. Distance
to a club is seldom a factor for us, our country is
much smaller. Getting to fly is not a problem as no
licence is required to fly a glider in the UK and even
the instructors do not have to hold power type categories.
I would have to say that these are not the cause of
the decline, not in the UK anyway.

I think it has more to do with the perceptions of the
new generations. They are able to access 'fun' on tap.
Go somewhere where their fun is provided, have it,
and then go on to something else. The concept of going
somewhere all day to help others have fun is alien
to them, why would the need to do that. My generation
needed to do it, the current generation don't and I
think it is as simple as that, coupled with the choice
of adventurous sports now available giving much more
opportunity. The 'access fun provided by someone else'
as opposed to 'make your own fun' ethos is here. Gliding
is one of the sports that needs people other than those
actually flying to take place at all.



At 07:00 28 January 2005, Btiz wrote:
Peter - that may explain why there are fewer gliderports,
but not fewer
pilots.

I live in Phoenix, which has for 30ish years now has
enjoyed the presence
of Turf Soaring on the northwest side and Estrella
on the south. If
anything they should be enjoying more business, not
less, especially
considering the order of magnitude growth in the area
since those
operations began. I've previously stated on this newsgroup
my opinions on
why participation in the sport is declining and won't
repeat them here,
but I believe it has little to do with urban expansion.
Much more to do
with numbers of military trained pilots since WWII
and competition from
other sports. It ain't as easy to become a pilot as
it used to be, either.

We do not advertise.. we are a weekend club, we accept
members every
'training season'.. and as we approach this time of
year, we have to turn
some away.. we are 'full'. Our instructors and equipment
is max'd out.. as a
weekend club there are only so many training hours
in a day. We have a
waiting list.. Our 'training season' begins in September.
I'll agree that we
have one primary trainer, one advanced trainer and
one tow plane, and two
other gliders for those already solo'd or checked out.
We are looking at
whether to buy another training glider, and maybe have
to pick up a second
tow plane... but the other short fall... we need tow
pilots.. tail wheel,
high performance qualified.

We run into the 'expand or stay the same'.... need
$$ to expand.. and need
members to support the expansion.. which came first
the chicken or the egg.
For a weekend club it is a tough call.. for a full
time club.. full time
employees.. it would be doable.

Now there are two additional commercial 'tourist ride'
and 'glider training'
glider companies on the same field... let's see if
they can survive. For
those of you who come up to Jean every spring from
AZ... drop me a line..
we'll get you the information for 'mid week tows'..

BT

With respect, that's ********

Put on the spot I would argue that //my// generation are as eager and as
capable as yours ever were or will be of "going somewhere all day to
help other to have fun" for nothing more than the rewards of equal
participation. To say otherwise is nothing but ageist, bigoted conceit
talking, perhaps a little influenced by the charm of looking back over
your glorious golden age of days gone by through rose-tinted spectacles.

No offence intended.

But you do touch on part of the issue when you mention the competition
we suffer these days in terms of the availability of other adventurous
sports. White water rafting, riding around dune buggies, sky-diving,
aerobatics in an old biplane, the list is endless, adrenaline pumped,
accessible and for the most part very visually and energetically
advertised.

I think gliding will always be a minority sport. It is never going to
enjoy mass appeal. It either terrifies the average man in the street or
it simply fails to throw the necessary switch. The idea of flight is not
to him what it is to you and me, it's a means to an end, whereas here it
is the end in itself.

But beyond that, our principle problem is obscurity and inaccessibility.
Nobody knows we're here, and if they do, they've no idea how to access
us. That's certainly true here in the UK, and I'd guess no different
over in the States judging by some of the other posts in this thread.


-Bill

Don Johnstone writes
I think it has more to do with the perceptions of the new generations.
They are able to access 'fun' on tap. Go somewhere where their fun is
provided, have it, and then go on to something else. The concept of
going somewhere all day to help others have fun is alien to them, why
would the need to do that. My generation needed to do it, the current
generation don't and I think it is as simple as that, coupled with the
choice of adventurous sports now available giving much more
opportunity. The 'access fun provided by someone else' as opposed to
'make your own fun' ethos is here. Gliding is one of the sports that
needs people other than those actually flying to take place at all.

--
Bill Gribble
| http://www.ingenuitytest.co.uk
| http://www.cotswoldgliding.co.uk
| http://www.scapegoatsanon.demon.co.uk

Bill, I apologise, you are obviously one of the current
generations who does not think that way and I am aware
there are a few, unfortunately you are the exception
rather that the rule.
Fell right into the generality trap there.

It's not an age thing per se, it's more an expectation,
as time goes on people expect more and more and the
culture of 'you can get anything if you pay for it'
is here. No effort required.

At 12:30 28 January 2005, Bill Gribble wrote:
With respect, that's ********

Put on the spot I would argue that //my// generation
are as eager and as
capable as yours ever were or will be of 'going somewhere
all day to
help other to have fun' for nothing more than the rewards
of equal
participation. To say otherwise is nothing but ageist,
bigoted conceit
talking, perhaps a little influenced by the charm of
looking back over
your glorious golden age of days gone by through rose-tinted
spectacles.

No offence intended.

But you do touch on part of the issue when you mention
the competition
we suffer these days in terms of the availability of
other adventurous
sports. White water rafting, riding around dune buggies,
sky-diving,
aerobatics in an old biplane, the list is endless,
adrenaline pumped,
accessible and for the most part very visually and
energetically
advertised.

I think gliding will always be a minority sport. It
is never going to
enjoy mass appeal. It either terrifies the average
man in the street or
it simply fails to throw the necessary switch. The
idea of flight is not
to him what it is to you and me, it's a means to an
end, whereas here it
is the end in itself.

But beyond that, our principle problem is obscurity
and inaccessibility.
Nobody knows we're here, and if they do, they've no
idea how to access
us. That's certainly true here in the UK, and I'd guess
no different
over in the States judging by some of the other posts
in this thread.


-Bill

Don Johnstone writes
I think it has more to do with the perceptions of the
new generations.
They are able to access 'fun' on tap. Go somewhere
where their fun is
provided, have it, and then go on to something else.
The concept of
going somewhere all day to help others have fun is
alien to them, why
would the need to do that. My generation needed to
do it, the current
generation don't and I think it is as simple as that,
coupled with the
choice of adventurous sports now available giving much
more
opportunity. The 'access fun provided by someone else'
as opposed to
'make your own fun' ethos is here. Gliding is one of
the sports that
needs people other than those actually flying to take
place at all.

--
Bill Gribble
| http://www.ingenuitytest.co.uk
| http://www.cotswoldgliding.co.uk
| http://www.scapegoatsanon.demon.co.uk