Scottish Glider Crash

Sadly, the little utility of ELTs and similar devices must suggest
something more disturbing for me: that almost nobody survive crashes,
even low energy/shallow ones..

Michele


Don Johnstone wrote:
At 16:42 12 July 2006, Mike The Strike wrote:
As reported elsewhere here, an experienced British
pilot crashed his
18m turbo Ventus in a remote area of Scotland. Judging
from the
photos, it looks more like an outlanding in rough terrain.
The injured
pilot remained in the cockpit until he was found over
24 hours later.
Early reports suggest he'll be ok, though he has broken
bones.

From the accident scene photos, it doesn't appear the
engine was
deployed. It'll be interesting to hear the details
of this one.

BBC News Scotland has reports and video available online.

The incident has renewed calls for compulsory beacons
in gliders in
Britain.

Only by the press who regularly demand the sacking
of the Prime Minster as well. Neither event appears
to be imminent although you never know, about the Prime
Minister I mean.

As has been pointed out by another post elsewhere,
no glider pilot has ever lost their life in the UK
because they did not have an ELT/PLB. No glider pilot
has ever had their life saved because they did have
one. Why can't it be left for each pilot to assess
the risk and act accordingly, we have enough of the
nanny state already.

Bottom line, he was found.

Mike

Mitch wrote:
Sadly, the little utility of ELTs and similar devices must suggest
something more disturbing for me: that almost nobody survive crashes,
even low energy/shallow ones..


I don't agree. Many of the non-fatal accidents are not reported at
all. I know of two accidents here in Arizona that wrecked gliders but
with only minor injuries to the pilots. Stall/spins are usually fatal
as are most accidents involving uncontrolled flight into terrain, but
most outlandings or controlled flight into terrain are survivable,
especially in newer gliders.

Mike.

Mike the Strike wrote:

While I'm also agreeing they should not be not compulsory for all
gliders - training ships and twirlybirds don't need them - an ELT would
be a wise investment for pilots flying alone over inhospitable terrain.
Mike

Breitling Watches makes a model called the "Emergency"
which can broadcast on 121.5, it is designed for just this type
of situation. Small and easy to carry in a glider.

Willie G.

Mal: I already have a personal ELT. I was referring to the Powers that
Be, like some SSA contest organizers, who insist that an ELT be
installed "in the glider".

2NO

bumper wrote:
I'm sure most are already aware, the "standard" 121.5 / 243 Mhz ELT will no
longer trigger SARSAT / COPAS after 2008. So when we are talking PLB's, they
are 406 MHz and some have built in GPS too. For a comparison, see:

Relatively recently I was in a position where an ELT could have helped a
lot. As a consequence, I did a serious 'net search last year for
information about the use and purchase of ELTs in the UK. I found two
sources of 243/121.5 MHz ELTs here and nothing at all on 406 MHz ELTs
intended for aviation use.

Now, I've read that the 2008 change over to 406 MHz ELTs is intended to
be world-wide so I'm a bit perturbed by the lack of information or
devices in the UK. If the changeover affects the UK, I'm rather
unwilling to buy a 243 MHz system that will be phased out in a year.

Has anybody heard anything definite about a 406 MHz change-over in the UK?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Mitch wrote:
Sadly, the little utility of ELTs and similar devices must suggest
something more disturbing for me: that almost nobody survive crashes,
even low energy/shallow ones..

Michele
That's just wrong. There are lots of us walking around.
Glider ELTs weren't in widespread use then but save for the randomness
of the universe, I could have died from exposure 50 yards from a mall
parking lot. Unheard, unseen and unseeable.

Safety features by definition have limited utility. The same could be
said about safety harnesses and my never used airbags. There are no
absolutes but there are consequences to one's decision making here.

"Now, I've read that the 2008 change over to 406 MHz ELTs is intended to
be world-wide so I'm a bit perturbed by the lack of information or
devices in the UK. If the changeover affects the UK, I'm rather
unwilling to buy a 243 MHz system that will be phased out in a year.

Has anybody heard anything definite about a 406 MHz change-over in the UK?"

The changeover, in effect, will be worldwide. That is because the
satellites that locate the 121.5 beacon and report approximate locations
will shut down. This is the main thrust of the change. The 406 MHz signals
may or may not have gps tied in.

However, the newer beacons will continue to have a 121.5 MHz beacon for
ground searchers to locate the device. It will be lower power, however.
The older beacons will not be declared illegal and still can be used for
radiolocation - however no satellite coverage. In flat terrain, the older
ELTs might still be useful - as long as someone is looking in the general
area. Passing aircraft will still be able to hear your beacon.

Last time I looked, I found no mention of the 243 MHz signal requirement on
the new beacons, so I expect that is going away. I think that was based
upon military requirements and that has gone away.

Colin

Update:

From latest photos available online it looks as if the engine was
deployed. It makes one wonder if he got into the usual trap of
motorised gliders of relying on the motor to get him out of a tricky
situation just too late for it to be effective.

I also wonder about the usefulness of a sustainer engine for retrieves
other than in flat quiet air. Several folks flying in the US west have
rejected them because of their poor power in high density altitudes.
Also they wouldn't help you if you hit a long run of 10-knot sink that
we sometimes see. I wonder if the mountain conditions he encountered
were just too much for the engine?

I also wonder if having the engine resulted in a mind-set that no ELT
would be necessary as the glider can always motor home?

BGA report awaited with interest!


Mike the Strike wrote:

From the accident scene photos, it doesn't appear the engine was
deployed. It'll be interesting to hear the details of this one.

BBC News Scotland has reports and video available online.

Mike

COLIN LAMB wrote:
"Now, I've read that the 2008 change over to 406 MHz ELTs is intended to
be world-wide so I'm a bit perturbed by the lack of information or
devices in the UK. If the changeover affects the UK, I'm rather
unwilling to buy a 243 MHz system that will be phased out in a year.

Has anybody heard anything definite about a 406 MHz change-over in the UK?"

The changeover, in effect, will be worldwide. That is because the
satellites that locate the 121.5 beacon and report approximate locations
will shut down. This is the main thrust of the change. The 406 MHz signals
may or may not have gps tied in.

However, the newer beacons will continue to have a 121.5 MHz beacon for
ground searchers to locate the device. It will be lower power, however.
The older beacons will not be declared illegal and still can be used for
radiolocation - however no satellite coverage. In flat terrain, the older
ELTs might still be useful - as long as someone is looking in the general
area. Passing aircraft will still be able to hear your beacon.

Last time I looked, I found no mention of the 243 MHz signal requirement on
the new beacons, so I expect that is going away. I think that was based
upon military requirements and that has gone away.

Thanks for the confirmation, but who is selling aircraft-rated 406MHz
ELTs in the UK and where can I find out how to register one?

I found references to floating, boatie type 406 MHz EPIRBs that activate
on immersion but not one with impact activation.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

The Minden Soaring Club webpage recently published an article written
by Pepe Gresa, from Spain, on the exactly this subject matter:

http://mindensoaringclub.com/int2/in...=73&Itemi d=5

The article is informative, and stresses the fact that ELT's do save
lives...