Tow Plane Upsets......

I don't want to get a thread drift going, but that reminds me of one of our captains who strapped a pair of MAC-10's on his Quicksilver ultralight and strafed the desert!! We used to hunt coyotes out of J-3's and Super Cubs. Several great prop strike stories....
But back to tow planes-- the AgWagon and Pawnees I used to spray and dust (yes, real sulpher dust) with had the dump gate lever on the left side of the cockpit mounted on the floor with a mechanism under the floor leading to the gate itself. As I recall, there was an adjustable stop to regulate the flow of dust from the hopper through the spreader (and into the cockpit--at least I never had fleas). When they convert a Pawnee to a towplane the hopper is usually removed along with all the hardware. Maybe everyone should think twice about taking that lever out. It can provide a lot of leverage on the tow hook.

Usually the hopper is cut down and the upper part is still used as part of the front turtle deck. The dump handle as you discussed has a mechanical screw jack that regulates the opening of the hopper gate. With all that said I would encourage anyone doing a conversion to a towplane to use that hopper dump handle as their tow release handle. It is a great release mechanism.

Glider pilot only. I am just reading all these experiences and I am thinking: What would happen if the Towpilot put full DOWN-elevator when he is in that position (and has some altitude)? Would that not break the towline?
Heinz

"Could you tell us about glider type, CG, weight and tow speed, especially
in relation to manufacturer recommended tow speed? "

Ventus B, 15M with winglets, dry. CG at 56% of range, 740 pounds, 60 Knots, Flaps +1, Spoilers closed.

Maintaining position with stick and rudder. (slips instead of airbreaks)
I think pretty nominal, but if you see something I'd like to hear.


Again, the lesson I took was to be aware of the failure mode, stay low near the prop wash, takeup slack nose down, and be willing to release if things get out of hand.

With the second lesson, I've towed through fairly violent rotors with a CG hook. I've released when I'd had enough, but there wasn't a kiting issue.

Training is key.

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 9:00:41 AM UTC-4, wrote:
"Could you tell us about glider type, CG, weight and tow speed, especially
in relation to manufacturer recommended tow speed? "

Ventus B, 15M with winglets, dry. CG at 56% of range, 740 pounds, 60 Knots, Flaps +1, Spoilers closed.

Better double check that W&B, because the behavior you describe suggests a CG close to or behind aft limit. There are probably a few Ventus Bs around with undocumented tail weight added. That was sort of the fashion in the 1980s.

If you are indeed at 56%, then there is some other significant issue.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

Slack in the rope? What's that other than a training exercise? I'd be
willing to bet that kiting incidents are caused by glider pilots losing
sight of the tug and not releasing immediately. Either that or they're
not qualified to be towing as pilot in command. I don't think students
see many difficult situations until after they're soloed and then
they're not prepared to handle them.

What Stu said: Training is key.

On 5/2/2017 7:00 AM, wrote:
"Could you tell us about glider type, CG, weight and tow speed, especially
in relation to manufacturer recommended tow speed? "

Ventus B, 15M with winglets, dry. CG at 56% of range, 740 pounds, 60 Knots, Flaps +1, Spoilers closed.

Maintaining position with stick and rudder. (slips instead of airbreaks)
I think pretty nominal, but if you see something I'd like to hear.


Again, the lesson I took was to be aware of the failure mode, stay low near the prop wash, takeup slack nose down, and be willing to release if things get out of hand.

With the second lesson, I've towed through fairly violent rotors with a CG hook. I've released when I'd had enough, but there wasn't a kiting issue.

Training is key.


--
Dan, 5J

If you think slack line only happens in training, why are you doing it? What real world event are we training to prevent?

Of the course the answer is that slack line is NOT just something to practice.

Tow into some rotor or other severe turbulence and you have slack line that you can't prevent, no matter how good you think you can control a glider.

I know you know that Dan.

I've been in severe rotor turbulence on both ends of the tow line and
it's no fun, but the slack lines that I've seen, again from both ends of
the rope, never got out of hand. At those times both pilots are quite
alert. The only other slack lines I've seen have been due to
inattention or lack of skill.

Why is everyone so reluctant to call a spade a space?

On 5/2/2017 11:49 AM, SoaringXCellence wrote:
If you think slack line only happens in training, why are you doing it? What real world event are we training to prevent?

Of the course the answer is that slack line is NOT just something to practice.

Tow into some rotor or other severe turbulence and you have slack line that you can't prevent, no matter how good you think you can control a glider.

I know you know that Dan.

--
Dan, 5J

Why is everyone so reluctant to call a spade a space?

Because they are spelled differently.

In our PA-25 we mounted the schweizer hook inverted, which in theory prevents that difficult/impossible release scenario. Having said that though, having experienced an upset at about 1,000 feet, the shocking speed of the upset makes me think that if it happened at 200 feet instead, no matter what kind of release system was installed, there would be no way to react in time.. I sometimes have to complain to instructors who let their students get way too out of shape when down low.