The wrong signals to send to young visitors.

"g n p" wrote in message
...
You Americans are a gas......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, after I've consumed a few Bud Lights, I *do* get rather gaseous .
.. . but I would never demonstrate this in a museum, in order to protect the
children. (Didn't someone say that there's a McDonald's in the museum? Come
to think of it, eating at McDonald's produces the same effect. I guess I'd
better not visit the museum at all!)

Seriously, this is typical political grandstanding as another poster pointed
out. As such, it represents yet another reason not to take much in the news
too seriously these days. The logo should stay.

SD

So let me get this straight--you put on a play about the Holocaust, you
refer to Hitler and the Nazis by name at least a dozen times, but showing a
Swastika is too sensitive?

That's not the logic of banning the swastika and other Nazi symbols.
Nobody worries that they'll *upset* people. Quite the contrary! When
these laws were passed in the 1950s, they were intended to head off a
resurgence of the Nazi party and mentality.

If in 1958 (I happened to be living in Frankfurt then) a gang of
former Hitler Jugend had goose-stepped down the street to the
Bodenweiler? March, wearing swastika armbands, the police could and
would have arrested them on two felony charges. There was no problem
about proving intent, party membership, whatever. They'd broken two
laws, and that was an end to it.

Today the Hitler Jugend are in their seventies and no threat to
anyone. But it would be a brave legislator who voted to repeal those
laws.

(Lessee, how can I bring this back on topic? Oh yes, I know! There was
a former Hitler Jugend working for us in Frankfurt as a motorcycle
messenger. He said he was assigned to an anti-aircraft gun outside
Frankfurt. When the American planes came over, he said the battery
commander instructed them: "If you don't shoot at the Amis, boys, they
won't shoot at you!")


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put CUB in subject line)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Swastika is used by many cultures and religions in the world. It has
been used by Hindus and Buddhists way before the Nazis adopted it.

It is a deeply revered symbol of progress & continuity of life.
Associating it with evil is only a sign of ignorance.

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in message ...
In a previous article, Larry Dighera said:
"Having a historic plane covered in gratuitous beer advertising sends
misleading and dangerous messages to the millions of annual museum

So, do all those World War II German planes with swastikas on them tell
kids that Nazism is cool?

"Deep Darr" wrote in message
om

Swastika is used by many cultures and religions in the world. It has
been used by Hindus and Buddhists way before the Nazis adopted it.

Even Native Americans...

It is a deeply revered symbol of progress & continuity of life.
Associating it with evil is only a sign of ignorance.

True. It's a shame that such symbols are perverted by those adopting them
for their own ends, but we have to live with the fact that "perception is
reality" and most people "perceive" the swastika as a symbol of evil. There
are other very visible examples of this...misperception.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer
__________

In a previous article, "John T" said:
"Deep Darr" wrote in message
. com
It is a deeply revered symbol of progress & continuity of life.
Associating it with evil is only a sign of ignorance.

True. It's a shame that such symbols are perverted by those adopting them
for their own ends, but we have to live with the fact that "perception is
reality" and most people "perceive" the swastika as a symbol of evil. There
are other very visible examples of this...misperception.

It would be pretty god damned stupid to argue that a swastika on a World
War II German plane was a "deeply revered symbol of progress & continuity
of life" - iin that context it was a symbol of Naziism, and nothing more.
Since I was referring to their use on German planes, I don't see how this
could possibly be "misperception".


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
QUOTE OF THE DAY:

`

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message


It would be pretty god damned stupid to argue that a swastika on a
World
War II German plane was a "deeply revered symbol of progress &
continuity
of life" -

I guess it's a good thing I wasn't making that argument.

iin that context it was a symbol of Naziism, and nothing
more. Since I was referring to their use on German planes, I don't
see how this could possibly be "misperception".

Since I wasn't referring to you, I don't see how the misperception I spoke
of was yours.

Wasn't the swastika a symbol of the state building the aircraft (just like
the white star on blue field for US planes or the "bullseye" for British
planes)? Does your argument mean that the "circled star" is a symbol of
republicanism?

As for markings on historic aircraft, my opinion is the aircraft should be
displayed as nearly as possible to how they appeared at the time they
achieved historic status. That includes symbols currently deemed offensive
and even advertising logos.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer
__________

I agree with you John, except the "most" part in your email. If you
meant most in the sense of who is talking, may be you are correct, but
in the sense of majority (given the Hindu and Buddhist population
around the world "most" people perceive the Swastika as good.

The absence of proselytism in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and other
variants makes the followers keep their affairs to themselves. This
has the undesired side effect that when a part of the world starts to
see their symbol as evil, they do not step up to drive the ignorance
away.

Sad.
Deep

"John T" wrote in message ews.com...
"Deep Darr" wrote in message
om

Swastika is used by many cultures and religions in the world. It has
been used by Hindus and Buddhists way before the Nazis adopted it.

Even Native Americans...

It is a deeply revered symbol of progress & continuity of life.
Associating it with evil is only a sign of ignorance.

True. It's a shame that such symbols are perverted by those adopting them
for their own ends, but we have to live with the fact that "perception is
reality" and most people "perceive" the swastika as a symbol of evil. There
are other very visible examples of this...misperception.

"Deep Darr" wrote in message
om

I agree with you John, except the "most" part in your email. If you
meant most in the sense of who is talking, may be you are correct, but
in the sense of majority (given the Hindu and Buddhist population
around the world "most" people perceive the Swastika as good.

Good catch. I was using the term (admittedly narrowly) in reference to
Americans and Europeans - most of whom seem to link the swastika with
nothing but Nazi Germany.

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
____________________

On Mon, 24 Nov 2003 23:37:26 GMT, "John T" wrote:

Good catch. I was using the term (admittedly narrowly) in reference to
Americans and Europeans - most of whom seem to link the swastika with
nothing but Nazi Germany.

The Nazi context is the only context I'd seen the swastika in for the
first 25 years of my life. If there are other contexts, they're not
widely known in the U.S.

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

"H.J." writes:

Wrong Larry.
Those logos are authentic and accurate historical markings. If your kid cant
handle the concept, keep him the hell out of the museum.

It's not the *kid* who can't handle the concept.

Ari.

Incidentally, some countries do prohibit Swastikas -- Germany, for
example. Ever bought a German-made plastic scale aircraft kit? No
Swastikas on the decal sheet, historic accuracy or not. Hasegawa, a
Japanese company, used to print Swastika decals in two separate
pieces, split down the diagonal -- if you wanted the historic
accuracy, you put it back together again, if you didn't, you didn't
have to look at the symbol.

My German friends who have been to the US are genuinely surprised that
it is legal to print Swastikas here and how often one sees them.

--
Elections only count as free and trials as fair if you can lose money
betting on the outcome.