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Hawk Wind



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 2nd 21, 02:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Galloway[_2_]
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Default Hawk Wind

On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 11:45:13 UTC+1, wrote:
On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 11:12:12 UTC+1, wrote:
... very similar while thermal lung as long as the glider ...

Just luuuved your spell-checker's 'thermal lung' for 'thermalling' . Mine (well, Google's) went for 'thermal ling'!
J.

Woops - didn't spot that.
  #22  
Old May 2nd 21, 05:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Goldman[_2_]
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Default Hawk Wind

Borglet had/has a similar (?) setup. His video shows a less nervous behavior during thermalling.
Dan
  #23  
Old May 2nd 21, 06:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Galloway[_2_]
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Default Hawk Wind

On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 17:37:05 UTC+1, wrote:
Borglet had/has a similar (?) setup. His video shows a less nervous behavior during thermalling.
Dan


Mike B has previously stated on RAS that the Dynamis system is not based on a filtering method, Kalman or otherwise. I understand that it uses high quality sensors. including one mounted on the rear fuselage, and a sensor fusion unit but how it works is kept confidential.
  #24  
Old May 2nd 21, 11:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
waremark
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Default Hawk Wind

On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 06:58:35 UTC+1, Matthew Scutter wrote:

Would you expect it to function meaningfully differently in the flatlands? Circling wind should work just fine in a homogenous atmosphere, so functioning the same would be ideal.
Similarly I would be surprised if there was improvement in variometer function from an existing well-compensated setup. All I would wish for additionally from my existing variometer is that it would read accurately in the first second of the pullup into a thermal.


Some Butterfly users reported that as you circle in a thermal you can see the wind indicators pointing in from all directions to the centre of the thermal. As to the vario, as someone else has mentioned the key aspiration is for a system which differentiates vertical gusts from horizontal gusts better than a TE vario. Again, the Butterfly was supposed to achieve this.
  #25  
Old May 3rd 21, 05:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Default Hawk Wind

On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 3:59:20 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 06:58:35 UTC+1, Matthew Scutter wrote:
Would you expect it to function meaningfully differently in the flatlands? Circling wind should work just fine in a homogenous atmosphere, so functioning the same would be ideal.
Similarly I would be surprised if there was improvement in variometer function from an existing well-compensated setup. All I would wish for additionally from my existing variometer is that it would read accurately in the first second of the pullup into a thermal.

Some Butterfly users reported that as you circle in a thermal you can see the wind indicators pointing in from all directions to the centre of the thermal. As to the vario, as someone else has mentioned the key aspiration is for a system which differentiates vertical gusts from horizontal gusts better than a TE vario. Again, the Butterfly was supposed to achieve this.


The best wind indicator I have used in over 40 years of soaring is watching how my circles drift while thermaling - no special sensors, sensor fusion or Kalman filtering required. Second to that is comparing true airspeed to GPS ground speed. I would like to see LXNAV implement a Nav box that differences those two values, however (again, no additional sensors or filtering required).

Tom
  #26  
Old May 3rd 21, 06:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Default Hawk Wind

In fact, iGlides thermal assistant is based on that behavior. In rough, two core, or asymmetric thermals it is a better indication than other thermal assistants which just integrate climb rate around the circle. This happens in flatlands as well, but not as uniquely useful there.
On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 3:59:20 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 06:58:35 UTC+1, Matthew Scutter wrote:
Would you expect it to function meaningfully differently in the flatlands? Circling wind should work just fine in a homogenous atmosphere, so functioning the same would be ideal.
Similarly I would be surprised if there was improvement in variometer function from an existing well-compensated setup. All I would wish for additionally from my existing variometer is that it would read accurately in the first second of the pullup into a thermal.

Some Butterfly users reported that as you circle in a thermal you can see the wind indicators pointing in from all directions to the centre of the thermal. As to the vario, as someone else has mentioned the key aspiration is for a system which differentiates vertical gusts from horizontal gusts better than a TE vario. Again, the Butterfly was supposed to achieve this.

  #27  
Old May 3rd 21, 06:53 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Default Hawk Wind

On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 08:58:35 UTC+3, Matthew Scutter wrote:
Would you expect it to function meaningfully differently in the flatlands? Circling wind should work just fine in a homogenous atmosphere, so functioning the same would be ideal.


Matthew, this is what we thought of wind for last 100 years. Now that we can measure it accurately with 1Hz sampling rate, it has proven to anything but homogenous. Thermal does not move with wind (because lower momentum of mass flow of air from surface, millions of kg/minute). Thermal creates plume of rising air, but also a plume of slower moving air. When you measure wind while thermalling, you are measuring this. When leaving thermal, you will fly into stronger wind. Ever had that feeling on headwind final glide that glider just does not want to stay on glide path unless you find lift? You flew into stronger headwind without knowing it. When arriving under cloud, you will most likely fly into lower wind area before flying into thermal. This can be used to your advantage. No need to make those searching turns yet unless the wind calmed down first.

Similarly I would be surprised if there was improvement in variometer function from an existing well-compensated setup. All I would wish for additionally from my existing variometer is that it would read accurately in the first second of the pullup into a thermal.


Inertial variometer does exactly this, gives a quantitative reading of the gust you feel in your seat. You need to get a used Air GlideS someday.
  #28  
Old May 3rd 21, 12:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Matthew Scutter
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Default Hawk Wind

On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 3:53:58 PM UTC+10, krasw wrote:
On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 08:58:35 UTC+3, Matthew Scutter wrote:
You need to get a used Air GlideS someday.


Actually I flew about 1000 hours with one and found it no better than my CAI302 or even my Winter.... I did not take it across to my new panel. Yes, I read the installation manual, adjusted all the calibrations, I even tried a remote install on the CG above the spars, far from any metal or electric fields, yes I read the myriad of unofficial PDF alternative operating instructions. Glad to hear it worked for you though.
  #29  
Old May 3rd 21, 12:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Posts: 668
Default Hawk Wind

On Monday, 3 May 2021 at 14:26:10 UTC+3, Matthew Scutter wrote:
On Monday, May 3, 2021 at 3:53:58 PM UTC+10, krasw wrote:
On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 08:58:35 UTC+3, Matthew Scutter wrote:
You need to get a used Air GlideS someday.

Actually I flew about 1000 hours with one and found it no better than my CAI302 or even my Winter.... I did not take it across to my new panel. Yes, I read the installation manual, adjusted all the calibrations, I even tried a remote install on the CG above the spars, far from any metal or electric fields, yes I read the myriad of unofficial PDF alternative operating instructions. Glad to hear it worked for you though.


Having heard this story from other pilot who really did everything possible to make it work, it is possible that there are just units that are not working correctly. Such a shame. I did one installation of ISU behind wings in fuselage, running pneumatic lines, can etc. there, quite an effort.
  #30  
Old May 3rd 21, 03:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default Hawk Wind

On 5/2/2021 9:39 PM, 2G wrote:
On Sunday, May 2, 2021 at 3:59:20 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
On Sunday, 2 May 2021 at 06:58:35 UTC+1, Matthew Scutter wrote:
Would you expect it to function meaningfully differently in the flatlands? Circling wind should work just fine in a homogenous atmosphere, so functioning the same would be ideal.
Similarly I would be surprised if there was improvement in variometer function from an existing well-compensated setup. All I would wish for additionally from my existing variometer is that it would read accurately in the first second of the pullup into a thermal.

Some Butterfly users reported that as you circle in a thermal you can see the wind indicators pointing in from all directions to the centre of the thermal. As to the vario, as someone else has mentioned the key aspiration is for a system which differentiates vertical gusts from horizontal gusts better than a TE vario. Again, the Butterfly was supposed to achieve this.


The best wind indicator I have used in over 40 years of soaring is watching how my circles drift while thermaling - no special sensors, sensor fusion or Kalman filtering required. Second to that is comparing true airspeed to GPS ground speed. I would like to see LXNAV implement a Nav box that differences those two values, however (again, no additional sensors or filtering required).


I prefer an instrument that will give the vector wind without circling, because
circling is not always convenient (eg, mountain flying near/in the ridges) and
reduces my average cruise speed. Determining the instantaneous headwind with the
difference between airspeed and ground speed is useful, but it is not the vector
wind. My CN vario in the Phoenix can determine the vector wind with minor course
changes while cruising, a better solution, I think. The Butterfly/Display S can
determine it without circling or course changes, the best solution for me.

But, wind determination is not the only goal of these inertial methods, but also
improving the vario response in the presence of gusts. Circling drift and
headwind determinations can't do that. I'm hoping Hawk will equal or exceed the
Butterfly's abilities.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
 




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