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#101
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Nothing good about Ethanol
On 2006-07-03, Dave Stadt wrote:
What has this got to do with aviation? Well, most of us GA people make SUV drivers look like fuel misers. Don't think so. SUVs have us outnumbered by what, several tens of thousands to one? This is of course how I personally rationalise my use of planes that get half the gas mileage of a Hummer! -- Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid. Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de |
#103
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Nothing good about Ethanol (moved for topic)
In rec.aviation.owning Coby Beck wrote:
snip Relax, put away the tinfoil hat, 0 on these plots is generally a multi-decadal mean centered a few decades ago or thereabouts. The Bingo, we have a winner! An ad hominem attack on one who would dare to doubt The One True Word. I knew you could do it. -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#104
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Nothing good about Ethanol
"Dylan Smith" wrote in message ... On 2006-07-01, Matt Barrow wrote: 1) What percentage of annual CO2 production is human caused and what portion is natural? Human production is around 3% of annual planetary CO2 production. 2) What are the short-term and long-term effect of CO2 concentrations? Ice core records going back hundreds of thousands of years plus other evidence show that global temperature closely correlates with CO2 levels. NOTE: The warming PRECEDES the CO2 increases by about 800 years. What has this got to do with aviation? Well, most of us GA people make SUV drivers look like fuel misers. "Everyone" is in a panic and that will redound to pilots. What's worse, the questions being asked as wrong if not backasswards. |
#105
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Nothing good about Ethanol
"Dave Stadt" wrote in message . net... "Dylan Smith" wrote in message ... On 2006-07-01, Matt Barrow wrote: 1) What percentage of annual CO2 production is human caused and what portion is natural? Human production is around 3% of annual planetary CO2 production. 2) What are the short-term and long-term effect of CO2 concentrations? Ice core records going back hundreds of thousands of years plus other evidence show that global temperature closely correlates with CO2 levels. What has this got to do with aviation? Well, most of us GA people make SUV drivers look like fuel misers. Don't think so. SUVs have us outnumbered by what, several tens of thousands to one? In that case, we need to use guerilla tactics. |
#106
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Nothing good about Ethanol
"Dylan Smith" wrote in message ... On 2006-07-03, Dave Stadt wrote: What has this got to do with aviation? Well, most of us GA people make SUV drivers look like fuel misers. Don't think so. SUVs have us outnumbered by what, several tens of thousands to one? This is of course how I personally rationalise my use of planes that get half the gas mileage of a Hummer! I stopped rationalizing these things when I actually started answering myself. -- Matt --------------------- Matthew W. Barrow Site-Fill Homes, LLC. Montrose, CO (MTJ) |
#107
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Nothing good about Ethanol
"Dylan Smith" wrote in message ... On 2006-07-01, Matt Barrow wrote: 1) What percentage of annual CO2 production is human caused and what portion is natural? Human production is around 3% of annual planetary CO2 production. Very good!! Follow-up: What is the most common greeenhouse gas and what is the breakdown on human vs. natural sources? 2) What are the short-term and long-term effect of CO2 concentrations? Ice core records going back hundreds of thousands of years plus other evidence show that global temperature closely correlates with CO2 levels. Yes, with a rather large delay; IOW, warming CAUSES CO2. |
#108
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Nothing good about Ethanol (moved for topic)
wrote in message
... In rec.aviation.owning Coby Beck wrote: snip Relax, put away the tinfoil hat, 0 on these plots is generally a multi-decadal mean centered a few decades ago or thereabouts. The Bingo, we have a winner! An ad hominem attack on one who would dare to doubt The One True Word. I knew you could do it. Don't forget to shut the door behind you as you run away! The following question and points remain unanswered: Where does that leave the rest of us? [wrt reconstructions of past climate] Ancient literature. Why not scientific evidence? Why not the records from the people that were alive at the time? Why don't you provide them? "It is not exactly clear why the number of vineyards declined subsequently. Some have put it down to an adverse change in the weather which made an uncertain enterprise even more problematic. Others have linked it with the dissolution of the monasteries by Henry VIII. Both these factors may have had some part to play but in all probability the decline was gradual (over several centuries) and for more complex reasons. " http://www.english-wine.com/history.html#domesday http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2...Comparison.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...Variations.png England was a big wine producer during the Roman period and for a while after the Romans. England became too cold for wine production about a millenium ago. Uh, that is supposed to have been the Medieval Warm Period. You have a poor grasp of the facts. You have a poor grasp of reading graphs. According to your graph refenced above (depending on who's data your use), the "little ice age" started about a millenium ago. One thousand years ago was about the peak of the MWP. I think you are the one having trouble reading that graph. The LIA is generally considered to have started around 1400 though it is not well synchronzed globally. Looking at the same source for a period of 450 thousand years, it looks like we are currently a little on the cool side. From that graph I would be more worried about global cooling. The Milankovitch cycles that controled that saw-tooth pattern would have us very gradually cooling, though the best estimates say we would not be in an iceage for another 30-50Kyrs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milanko...les#The_future http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:I...emperature.png It is now almost warm enough in England *AGAIN* to produce decent wine. In specific answer to the "grapes used to grow in England" bit, I like to point people he http://www.english-wine.com/index.html I'm well aware England is again growing grapes and making wine. I'm also well aware from writting of the times that England grew a lot of grapes during Roman times and up to about the beginning of the little ice age, at which time production just about ceased. "It is said that Julius Caesar brought the vine to England. Nice though that story is, some scholars think it apocryphal - wine was certainly brought to Britain by the Romans, but it is less certain whether the vine was grown here, or if it was, whether it was in sufficent quantity to satisfy the local requirement for wine or just as an ornament to remind Romans of home and wealthy Romano-Britons of the source of their civilisation and prosperity." http://www.english-wine.com/history.html#roman It is only in recent time (in terms of centuries) that it has been warm enough to start producing in quantity again. "The period from the end of the First World War to shortly after the end of the Second World War may well be the only time in two millennia that vines to make wine on a substantial scale were not grown in England or Wales. Doubtless, during that time, there were some vines being grown on a garden scale by amateur growers, but for more than 25 years there was a total cessation of viticulture and winemaking on a commercial basis. " http://www.english-wine.com/history.html#20thcentury Perhaps you should close your web browser, turn off the computer, and read a few good books, preferably in the original Latin. Perhaps you should provide some more substance and less bluster. -- Coby Beck (remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com") |
#109
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Nothing good about Ethanol (moved for topic)
In rec.aviation.owning Coby Beck wrote:
wrote in message ... In rec.aviation.owning Coby Beck wrote: snip Relax, put away the tinfoil hat, 0 on these plots is generally a multi-decadal mean centered a few decades ago or thereabouts. The Bingo, we have a winner! An ad hominem attack on one who would dare to doubt The One True Word. I knew you could do it. Don't forget to shut the door behind you as you run away! Bingo, yet another ad hominem, with the implication I am a coward incapable of facing The Truth! What makes you think you are worth bothering to respond to any further now that you've shown your true colors? snip remaining -- Jim Pennino Remove .spam.sux to reply. |
#110
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Nothing good about Ethanol (moved for topic)
wrote in message
... In rec.aviation.owning Coby Beck wrote: wrote in message ... In rec.aviation.owning Coby Beck wrote: snip Relax, put away the tinfoil hat, 0 on these plots is generally a multi-decadal mean centered a few decades ago or thereabouts. The Bingo, we have a winner! An ad hominem attack on one who would dare to doubt The One True Word. I knew you could do it. Don't forget to shut the door behind you as you run away! Bingo, yet another ad hominem, with the implication I am a coward incapable of facing The Truth! Ad hominem is when I attempt to refute your argument by attacking you in a personal way. Since you offered no argument whatsoever, my empirical observation of your cowardice can not be interpreted as any kind of refutation, thus not ad hominem. It is not even an insult as it is a statement of fact: I presented detailed, substantiated and logical discussion and you snipped it all, made up a transparent excuse, insulted me and ran away from the discussion. Your unsupported assertion that the MWP was globally warmer than today does not match the available evidence. Your anecdote about Romans, England and wine is apparently a myth and does not logically imply anything about global climate at that time nor today's climate change. There is no shame in being wrong, being wilfully ignorant on the other hand is inexcusable. -- Coby Beck (remove #\Space "coby 101 @ bigpond . com") [Repost in case you have a change of heart] The following question and points remain unanswered: Where does that leave the rest of us? [wrt reconstructions of past climate] Ancient literature. Why not scientific evidence? Why not the records from the people that were alive at the time? Why don't you provide them? "It is not exactly clear why the number of vineyards declined subsequently. Some have put it down to an adverse change in the weather which made an uncertain enterprise even more problematic. Others have linked it with the dissolution of the monasteries by Henry VIII. Both these factors may have had some part to play but in all probability the decline was gradual (over several centuries) and for more complex reasons. " http://www.english-wine.com/history.html#domesday http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:2...Comparison.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:H...Variations.png England was a big wine producer during the Roman period and for a while after the Romans. England became too cold for wine production about a millenium ago. Uh, that is supposed to have been the Medieval Warm Period. You have a poor grasp of the facts. You have a poor grasp of reading graphs. According to your graph refenced above (depending on who's data your use), the "little ice age" started about a millenium ago. One thousand years ago was about the peak of the MWP. I think you are the one having trouble reading that graph. The LIA is generally considered to have started around 1400 though it is not well synchronzed globally. Looking at the same source for a period of 450 thousand years, it looks like we are currently a little on the cool side. From that graph I would be more worried about global cooling. The Milankovitch cycles that controled that saw-tooth pattern would have us very gradually cooling, though the best estimates say we would not be in an iceage for another 30-50Kyrs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milanko...les#The_future http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:I...emperature.png It is now almost warm enough in England *AGAIN* to produce decent wine. In specific answer to the "grapes used to grow in England" bit, I like to point people he http://www.english-wine.com/index.html I'm well aware England is again growing grapes and making wine. I'm also well aware from writting of the times that England grew a lot of grapes during Roman times and up to about the beginning of the little ice age, at which time production just about ceased. "It is said that Julius Caesar brought the vine to England. Nice though that story is, some scholars think it apocryphal - wine was certainly brought to Britain by the Romans, but it is less certain whether the vine was grown here, or if it was, whether it was in sufficent quantity to satisfy the local requirement for wine or just as an ornament to remind Romans of home and wealthy Romano-Britons of the source of their civilisation and prosperity." http://www.english-wine.com/history.html#roman It is only in recent time (in terms of centuries) that it has been warm enough to start producing in quantity again. "The period from the end of the First World War to shortly after the end of the Second World War may well be the only time in two millennia that vines to make wine on a substantial scale were not grown in England or Wales. Doubtless, during that time, there were some vines being grown on a garden scale by amateur growers, but for more than 25 years there was a total cessation of viticulture and winemaking on a commercial basis. " http://www.english-wine.com/history.html#20thcentury Perhaps you should close your web browser, turn off the computer, and read a few good books, preferably in the original Latin. Perhaps you should provide some more substance and less bluster. |
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