Pawnee Tow Release

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:41:35 PM UTC-4, Hal wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:16:45 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
I am currently rebuilding another Pawnee and converting from a spray plane to a tow plane. Extensive work has been completed on this bird, and I am about ready to install the tow hook. This is the third Pawnee that I have converted and I have used the hopper dump handle as the tow release handle which provides a huge amount of leverage and also a easy to get to location. I most cases the tow handle release is located on the floor, which causes the pilot to reach down to get to the handle. In this case the hopper release handle is just to the left side of the pilot and requires no bending down and allows the pilot to keep their eye on flying the plane. It requires just a bit of modification to make this conversion and in my case the inspector was impressed with the application.
If any of you are considering converting a Pawnee you should consider this modification.

Back in the 1970's, I towed with a Citabria that had the release cable connected directly to steel tubing directly over the front windscreen. It ran toward the rear and through a guide high in the back of the cabin. To release you just reached up, grabbed the wire and pulled straight down. That was my favorite release of all time. Since then I must have flown at least six other towplanes with all sorts of release mechanisms. The least favorite is the floor release which I think is unsafe for the reasons you mentioned. In addition, if the pilot does not look down it can be confused with the flap control on many airplanes.

Yes, I agree 100%, back at Thermal Research our towplane had the release mounted just toward the upper left of the cockpit, a great place to easily access during any situation. The floor release is the least favorable of all. As you mentioned it certainly is close to the flap handle on many planes. The hopper handle in my opinion is the best release handle for the Pawnee.

On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:16:45 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
I am currently rebuilding another Pawnee and converting from a spray plane to a tow plane. Extensive work has been completed on this bird, and I am about ready to install the tow hook. This is the third Pawnee that I have converted and I have used the hopper dump handle as the tow release handle which provides a huge amount of leverage and also a easy to get to location. I most cases the tow handle release is located on the floor, which causes the pilot to reach down to get to the handle. In this case the hopper release handle is just to the left side of the pilot and requires no bending down and allows the pilot to keep their eye on flying the plane. It requires just a bit of modification to make this conversion and in my case the inspector was impressed with the application.
If any of you are considering converting a Pawnee you should consider this modification.
Kirk, that is in fact a very nice system. Take yours off the Pawnee and send it to me. Times are tough and I am running low on cash, thinking about calling JJ Wentworth for a small advance. Bob

Originally Posted by Bob Youngblood

On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:16:45 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
I am currently rebuilding another Pawnee and converting from a spray plane to a tow plane. Extensive work has been completed on this bird, and I am about ready to install the tow hook. This is the third Pawnee that I have converted and I have used the hopper dump handle as the tow release handle which provides a huge amount of leverage and also a easy to get to location. I most cases the tow handle release is located on the floor, which causes the pilot to reach down to get to the handle. In this case the hopper release handle is just to the left side of the pilot and requires no bending down and allows the pilot to keep their eye on flying the plane. It requires just a bit of modification to make this conversion and in my case the inspector was impressed with the application.
If any of you are considering converting a Pawnee you should consider this modification.
Kirk, that is in fact a very nice system. Take yours off the Pawnee and send it to me. Times are tough and I am running low on cash, thinking about calling JJ Wentworth for a small advance. Bob

Bob, the system on your Yellow Gorilla should be the standard throughout the towing world. Everyone agrees the handle down, parallel to the floor is difficult to access in an emergency and unsafe. The Schweizer tow hook standardly installed is equally unsafe. While there is no way to make towing completely safe for the tow pilot, at too low an altitude a kiting glider is a death sentence and there is no justifiable reason for any facility to continue with a release system proven to fail when it needs to work the most. Just my humble opinion.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now happily flying helicopters.

On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 8:43:07 AM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Bob Youngblood;997736 Wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:16:45 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:-
I am currently rebuilding another Pawnee and converting from a spray
plane to a tow plane. Extensive work has been completed on this bird,
and I am about ready to install the tow hook. This is the third Pawnee
that I have converted and I have used the hopper dump handle as the tow
release handle which provides a huge amount of leverage and also a easy
to get to location. I most cases the tow handle release is located on
the floor, which causes the pilot to reach down to get to the handle. In
this case the hopper release handle is just to the left side of the
pilot and requires no bending down and allows the pilot to keep their
eye on flying the plane. It requires just a bit of modification to make
this conversion and in my case the inspector was impressed with the
application.
If any of you are considering converting a Pawnee you should consider
this modification. -
Kirk, that is in fact a very nice system. Take yours off the Pawnee and
send it to me. Times are tough and I am running low on cash, thinking
about calling JJ Wentworth for a small advance. Bob


Bob, the system on your Yellow Gorilla should be the standard throughout
the towing world. Everyone agrees the handle down, parallel to the
floor is difficult to access in an emergency and unsafe. The Schweizer
tow hook standardly installed is equally unsafe. While there is no way
to make towing completely safe for the tow pilot, at too low an altitude
a kiting glider is a death sentence and there is no justifiable reason
for any facility to continue with a release system proven to fail when
it needs to work the most. Just my humble opinion.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now happily flying helicopters.




--
Walt Connelly

Walt, thanks for the kind words. I first made that arrangement on Dusty, my first Pawnee, and then on to the Yellow Gorilla. After many tows and other tow pilots examining the system they all have been in agreement with your observation. I am now completing a new Pawnee which is named Towpecker, it too will have the same release mechanism that even has better performance. Bob

On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 3:11:15 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 8:43:07 AM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Bob Youngblood;997736 Wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:16:45 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:-
I am currently rebuilding another Pawnee and converting from a spray
plane to a tow plane. Extensive work has been completed on this bird,
and I am about ready to install the tow hook. This is the third Pawnee
that I have converted and I have used the hopper dump handle as the tow
release handle which provides a huge amount of leverage and also a easy
to get to location. I most cases the tow handle release is located on
the floor, which causes the pilot to reach down to get to the handle. In
this case the hopper release handle is just to the left side of the
pilot and requires no bending down and allows the pilot to keep their
eye on flying the plane. It requires just a bit of modification to make
this conversion and in my case the inspector was impressed with the
application.
If any of you are considering converting a Pawnee you should consider
this modification. -
Kirk, that is in fact a very nice system. Take yours off the Pawnee and
send it to me. Times are tough and I am running low on cash, thinking
about calling JJ Wentworth for a small advance. Bob


Bob, the system on your Yellow Gorilla should be the standard throughout
the towing world. Everyone agrees the handle down, parallel to the
floor is difficult to access in an emergency and unsafe. The Schweizer
tow hook standardly installed is equally unsafe. While there is no way
to make towing completely safe for the tow pilot, at too low an altitude
a kiting glider is a death sentence and there is no justifiable reason
for any facility to continue with a release system proven to fail when
it needs to work the most. Just my humble opinion.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now happily flying helicopters.




--
Walt Connelly

Walt, thanks for the kind words. I first made that arrangement on Dusty, my first Pawnee, and then on to the Yellow Gorilla. After many tows and other tow pilots examining the system they all have been in agreement with your observation. I am now completing a new Pawnee which is named Towpecker, it too will have the same release mechanism that even has better performance.. Bob

Bob

Would it be possible to get some pictures of your release set up? Our Pawnee the floor mounted lever which is not acceptable and we are looking at alternatives.

Bruce Cynamon
Weirsdale Glider Club

On Tuesday, February 25, 2020 at 10:32:06 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 3:11:15 PM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:
On Wednesday, August 14, 2019 at 8:43:07 AM UTC-4, Walt Connelly wrote:
Bob Youngblood;997736 Wrote:
On Monday, August 5, 2019 at 1:16:45 AM UTC-4, Bob Youngblood wrote:-
I am currently rebuilding another Pawnee and converting from a spray
plane to a tow plane. Extensive work has been completed on this bird,
and I am about ready to install the tow hook. This is the third Pawnee
that I have converted and I have used the hopper dump handle as the tow
release handle which provides a huge amount of leverage and also a easy
to get to location. I most cases the tow handle release is located on
the floor, which causes the pilot to reach down to get to the handle. In
this case the hopper release handle is just to the left side of the
pilot and requires no bending down and allows the pilot to keep their
eye on flying the plane. It requires just a bit of modification to make
this conversion and in my case the inspector was impressed with the
application.
If any of you are considering converting a Pawnee you should consider
this modification. -
Kirk, that is in fact a very nice system. Take yours off the Pawnee and
send it to me. Times are tough and I am running low on cash, thinking
about calling JJ Wentworth for a small advance. Bob


Bob, the system on your Yellow Gorilla should be the standard throughout
the towing world. Everyone agrees the handle down, parallel to the
floor is difficult to access in an emergency and unsafe. The Schweizer
tow hook standardly installed is equally unsafe. While there is no way
to make towing completely safe for the tow pilot, at too low an altitude
a kiting glider is a death sentence and there is no justifiable reason
for any facility to continue with a release system proven to fail when
it needs to work the most. Just my humble opinion.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now happily flying helicopters.




--
Walt Connelly

Walt, thanks for the kind words. I first made that arrangement on Dusty, my first Pawnee, and then on to the Yellow Gorilla. After many tows and other tow pilots examining the system they all have been in agreement with your observation. I am now completing a new Pawnee which is named Towpecker, it too will have the same release mechanism that even has better performance. Bob

Bob

Would it be possible to get some pictures of your release set up? Our Pawnee the floor mounted lever which is not acceptable and we are looking at alternatives.

Bruce Cynamon
Weirsdale Glider Club

Bruce, I would be glad to send you some pics of the tow release handle that I have developed on both of my Pawnee's. I never liked the release handle on the floor, it is difficult to get to regardless of an emergency or not. The Pawnee came with a hopper release handle located on the left side of the cockpit rising from beneath the floor and extends about three feet up in a forward position. If the pilot needed to dump the hopper the handle was there and made for easy access.
I used this same assembly as my tow release handle. The assembly itself sits in a two bushing support, super strong and easy to configure fora tow release handle. I did a bit of tig welding on the attach point to attach the release cable at the proper angle and guided the cable back to the Tost release assembly. This assembly works beautifully and ensures greater safety and easy access. Walt visited our club and looked at how I had done the tow release, his opinion of the release has been been backed by many tow pilots that have flown the Yellow Gorilla and other Pawnee tow pilots.
Safety comes first for the tow pilot, my next tow will not be my first, and damn sure don't want it o be the last. Bob

We are looking to purchase a Pawnee PA-25 that had a Continental engine installed (230hp?). It is approved for aerial towing (Schweizer hook) and we are trying to decide if it's worth the time/money to seek an FAA conversion to towing gliders with a TOST. Have read through several of the RAS discussions on this and talked with a couple clubs that completed STC's/FDSO field inspections. I get the feeling it's a real headache, some people concluded they wouldn't do it again. Anyone have a better experience or advice?
Thanks
D

Putting a Tost hook on a Pawnee is a very simple operation. The FAA doesn’t really need to be involved other then representation by an IA. Shoot me an email or call if you have any questions. www.skyeaero.com
Pawnee’s typically come with a 230 HP Lycoming engine. I’ve never seen a Continental on one.

On Sunday, September 15, 2019 at 9:17:31 PM UTC-5, Charles Longley wrote:
Putting a Tost hook on a Pawnee is a very simple operation. The FAA doesn’t really need to be involved other then representation by an IA. Shoot me an email or call if you have any questions. www.skyeaero.com
Pawnee’s typically come with a 230 HP Lycoming engine. I’ve never seen a Continental on one.

The Continental was STC'd in this PA-25. I will PM you eventually, but for now let's assume we want to seek a TOST conversion. Will that necessitate an STC or FDSO field approval or can an IA do this? If it requires an STC is there an existing one, or are they unique to each Pawnee model? Should we want to modify the floor release to one of the suggested mods, would that require an STC?
Thanks in advance,
Mike

Interesting that someone put an O-470 on a Pawnee. Do you know which model it is?

To answer your question the TOST tow release comes with an STC. W&W does a pretty good job supporting them.
Here’s the standard one-
https://wingsandwheels.com/aircraft-...-for-pa25.html
If your club wants to spend a lot more money and go to a retractable one here’s the link-
https://wingsandwheels.com/aircraft-...-for-pa25.html
Pros and cons for each. Depends on how your club operates.

I would put the release in front of the throttle where the pilot can easily see it. One of the Pawnee’s I fly is set up that way. The other two use the stock dump lever. Which is acceptable but not as convenient to reach.

Any IA can sign off the FAA form 337 to document the conversion. The approved data will come from the STC and AC 43.13.

Hope this helps.
Charlie