HURRICANE PROOF BUILDINGS

The old sail boats were faster than you think.
http://www.bluenose2.ns.ca/public_html/english/faq.html
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/spider/flinn/bl...imensions.html

"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
...
Matt Whiting wrote in
:

The old wood sailing ships took a lot more beating on a...

I was talking about the hull hitting the ways. Hitting a wave at
15-20 knots is a LOT of force.

Excuse me, but who is truly clueless here? Since when did old wood sailing
ships travel at anywhere near 15-20 knots? Maybe down the business side of
a tsunami with a cat 5 hurricane tailwind...

Juan

sandy barber wrote:

The old sail boats were faster than you think.
http://www.bluenose2.ns.ca/public_html/english/faq.html
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/spider/flinn/bl...imensions.html

"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
...

Matt Whiting wrote in
:


The old wood sailing ships took a lot more beating on a...

I was talking about the hull hitting the ways. Hitting a wave at
15-20 knots is a LOT of force.

Excuse me, but who is truly clueless here? Since when did old wood sailing
ships travel at anywhere near 15-20 knots? Maybe down the business side of
a tsunami with a cat 5 hurricane tailwind...

Juan





Don't try to confuse Juan with the facts. He can't read well enough to
pick the information out of the link in any event.


Matt

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:45:33 -0300, "sandy barber"
wrote:


"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
. ..
Matt Whiting wrote in
:

The old wood sailing ships took a lot more beating on a...

I was talking about the hull hitting the ways. Hitting a wave at
15-20 knots is a LOT of force.

Excuse me, but who is truly clueless here? Since when did old wood sailing
ships travel at anywhere near 15-20 knots? Maybe down the business side of
a tsunami with a cat 5 hurricane tailwind...

The old sail boats were faster than you think.
http://www.bluenose2.ns.ca/public_html/english/faq.html
http://www.cs.ubc.ca/spider/flinn/bl...imensions.html

"Clipper ships, built for speed, might reach 17 knots...."
- John Harland, _Seamanship in the Age of Sail_, page 46

Yes, it takes a lot of wind. But the tea clippers were *very* competitive,
and shortening sail was only done in dire circumstances. One captain used
to padlock the halyards before going to bed "so no coward of a mate can
shorten sail."

The later steel-hulled sailing ships were even faster due to the longer
hulls. Harland states that one logged 20.75 knots, and another averaged 14
knots over a full day's run.

Ron Wanttaja

Ron Wanttaja wrote...

The later steel-hulled sailing ships were even faster due to the longer
hulls. Harland states that one logged 20.75 knots, and another averaged
14
knots over a full day's run.

Is that speed measured with respect to a fixed reference or
a moving water mass? A ship at 20 knots 'ground'speed
hitting a mass of water moving 5 knots in the opposite
direction has a speed with respect to the water of 25
knots. And for a point of reference, dynamic pressure
at 100 knots in standard-day air is less than the dynamic
pressure at 5 knots in water (clean, not salt).

Dave 'wave drag' Hyde

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 03:44:12 GMT, "Dave Hyde" wrote:

Ron Wanttaja wrote...

The later steel-hulled sailing ships were even faster due to the longer
hulls. Harland states that one logged 20.75 knots, and another averaged
14 knots over a full day's run.

Is that speed measured with respect to a fixed reference or
a moving water mass? A ship at 20 knots 'ground'speed
hitting a mass of water moving 5 knots in the opposite
direction has a speed with respect to the water of 25
knots. And for a point of reference, dynamic pressure
at 100 knots in standard-day air is less than the dynamic
pressure at 5 knots in water (clean, not salt).

The 20.75 knots would be relative to the moving water mass ("Water speed").
Until the late 19th century, speed was measured using a "log chip" and "log
line." The log chip (also known as a log ship) was a flat piece of wood,
usually a triangle like a half-scale "Yield" sign. The log line was a
600-foot rope with knots at ~42-foot intervals, attached to the three
corners of the chip. The log chip (weighted and the log-line rigged to
make it float in max-drag position) would be thrown overboard, and the
number of knots that passed within 28 seconds (or 14, if the speed were
high) were counted.

http://www.rootsweb.com/~mosmd/logln.htm

The Herzogin Cecile (the ship that set the 20.75 knot mark) was a
20th-century ship, so it probably had a taffrail log similar to this:

http://www.arcticcorsair.f9.co.uk/sp...frail_log.html

I suspect the 14-knot average (achieved by the Pruessen) was "ground
speed," since it probably was calculated from the amount of travel between
the master's noon navigational fixes.

Ron "Turn!" Wanttaja

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 05:49:07 GMT, Ron Wanttaja
wrote:

I suspect the 14-knot average (achieved by the Pruessen) was "ground
speed," since it probably was calculated from the amount of travel between
the master's noon navigational fixes.

During it's inaugaral voyage, the "extreme" clipper ship "Flying
Cloud" managed one stretch of it's Sandy Hook to San Francisco of 375
miles in 24 hours.

Corky Scott

(B2431) wrote in
:

I didn't say the ship was traveling at 15 - 20 knots. Ships have a
certain speed. Waves also have a certain speed. Ships also rise and
fall in heavy seas. It is the vector sum of all of these that
determines the impact velocity. If a ship is traveling at 8 knots,
and falls 8' into a wave that is traveling at 6 knots in the opposite
direction, the impact force is much greater than the just the 8 knots
speed of the ship. Is this really that hard a concept to understand?


Matt

It is to juan. If you really want to confuse him explain how a
sailboat can ride over a 400 kt tsunami in mid ocean without really
noticing.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dannyboy, you need to picture a wave travelling at 400 kts but just a
fraction of an inch tall. Maybe then you'll get it.

"Matthew P. Cummings" wrote in
news
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 02:22:33 +0000, RobertR237 wrote:

expert in all things and nothing will ever change his mind.

I hate to say it, but getting a BD5 ready to fly seems to have changed
his mind, as well as leaving our country.

Another product of superior mainland education who doesn't know that PR has
been part of the US for more than 100 years...And then people wonder why
immigrants from asian countries do so much better in college....

From: Juan Jimenez
Date: 8/26/2004 8:21 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

(B2431) wrote in
:

I didn't say the ship was traveling at 15 - 20 knots. Ships have a
certain speed. Waves also have a certain speed. Ships also rise and
fall in heavy seas. It is the vector sum of all of these that
determines the impact velocity. If a ship is traveling at 8 knots,
and falls 8' into a wave that is traveling at 6 knots in the opposite
direction, the impact force is much greater than the just the 8 knots
speed of the ship. Is this really that hard a concept to understand?


Matt

It is to juan. If you really want to confuse him explain how a
sailboat can ride over a 400 kt tsunami in mid ocean without really
noticing.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dannyboy, you need to picture a wave travelling at 400 kts but just a
fraction of an inch tall. Maybe then you'll get it.

Juan, I knew that before I posted it. Did it take you this long to look it up?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"Matthew P. Cummings" wrote in
news
On Tue, 17 Aug 2004 02:22:33 +0000, RobertR237 wrote:

expert in all things and nothing will ever change his mind.

I hate to say it, but getting a BD5 ready to fly seems to have changed
his mind, as well as leaving our country.

PR is a part of the U.S. just so ya know.

The questions has juan actually finished that BD-5 or is he just saying so?

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired