Preliminary NTSB Report on the Oshkosh P51 Crash Released

"Frank Ch. Eigler" wrote in message
...

Dudley Henriques writes:

The following information came in to me by back channel [...]
[...] The demonstration air race was completed and the five
aircraft were in the process of landing separately, and not in
formation, on runway 36.

Does that make sense though? It sounds like the two planes were very
close already on final, and the trailing pilot ought to have seen the
one just ahead.

The video shows the trailing plane was also higher. If is difficult to see
over the nose in a lot of taildraggers -- or even some nosewheel planes for
that matter. Like I said in an earlier post, I make it a habit to slip for
a second or two to clear the runway. I highly recommend this technique.

Danny Deger

Ron Natalie wrote:
BT wrote:
you've never seen OshKosh operations..

search on the EAA web pages and review the OSH NOTAMS for the EAA Event

B
This has squat to do with the NOTAM and the normal oshkosh show
arrivals. The airport was effectively closed except for the
five planes in the air "race" demo and the DC3 that was launching
to drop the skydivers for the next act.

Isn't there still some requirement for communication between the
aircraft and ground during an airshow?

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
news
This has squat to do with the NOTAM and the normal oshkosh show arrivals.
The airport was effectively closed except for the
five planes in the air "race" demo and the DC3 that was launching
to drop the skydivers for the next act.

This is perhaps tangentally-related, but, for those of you who have
participated or monitored -during- the airshow, how much pressure is put on
the performers to return as quickly as possible after their performance.

The reason I ask is because at the Hillsboro Airshow a few years ago, which
I was attending and monitoring, the tower brought the warbirds in so fast to
keep on schedule that they were stacking up on the runway. What happened
is that a Mig, I think it was, blew a tire on the runway as it braked to
avoid the airplane ahead of it which hadn't cleared the active yet. As it
was trying to hobble off with a flat main tire, another warbird careened
nearly off the runway and almost groundlooped trying to avoid a collision
with the Mig.

The impression is that it was so important to leave time for Truckasaurus
and the other events that the warbird pilots were put into an unsafe
situation which resulted in two damaged airplanes, a near-collision and a
lack of safety that was likely apparent to every spectator watching. It
looked very unprofessional on the part of the pilots but if you were
monitoring the radio chatter you could hear that they were being rushed
along and that the pilots were a little upset about it. Safety literally
took second place to the airshow schedule. Is that common?

-c

Gattman wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
news
This has squat to do with the NOTAM and the normal oshkosh show arrivals.
The airport was effectively closed except for the
five planes in the air "race" demo and the DC3 that was launching
to drop the skydivers for the next act.

This is perhaps tangentally-related, but, for those of you who have
participated or monitored -during- the airshow, how much pressure is put on
the performers to return as quickly as possible after their performance.

Just for the record, I said nothing above as attributed to me by
Gattman. You need to learn how to use a news reader.

Matt

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
news
Gattman wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message

Just for the record, I said nothing above as attributed to me by Gattman.

My error. I incorrectly trimmed the attributions.

You need to learn how to use a news reader.

Hey, thanks. Jackass.

-c

Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
Dudley Henriques writes:

The following information came in to me by back channel [...]
[...] The demonstration air race was completed and the five
aircraft were in the process of landing separately, and not in
formation, on runway 36.

Does that make sense though? It sounds like the two planes were very
close already on final, and the trailing pilot ought to have seen the
one just ahead.

Wasn't there a functioning tower to wave them off or fire some red flares
when the second one crept up on the one rounding out?

George Z.

George Z. Bush wrote:
Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
Dudley Henriques writes:

The following information came in to me by back channel [...]
[...] The demonstration air race was completed and the five
aircraft were in the process of landing separately, and not in
formation, on runway 36.

Does that make sense though? It sounds like the two planes were
very close already on final, and the trailing pilot ought to have
seen the one just ahead.

Wasn't there a functioning tower to wave them off or fire some red
flares when the second one crept up on the one rounding out?

George Z.



Would the pilot of either aircraft have time to see a red flare from the
tower at that point in the landing ?



--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

Frank Ch. Eigler wrote:
Dudley Henriques writes:

The following information came in to me by back channel [...]
[...] The demonstration air race was completed and the five
aircraft were in the process of landing separately, and not in
formation, on runway 36.

Does that make sense though? It sounds like the two planes were very
close already on final, and the trailing pilot ought to have seen the
one just ahead.

- FChE

My sources tell me the A was on an extended final. With the amount of
flap the A was carrying, he would have also had to have been carrying
some manifold pressure to keep the nose up in that situation. It is
entirely possible that a Mustang in that approach configuration would
have a visual scan of the runway beyond where the D was obviously being
flared beneath the A's nose.
I believe the restricted visibility inherent to the A was a contributing
factor to this accident. I also believe that the investigation will
reveal additional factors involving the prebriefed pattern sequencing
and errors within that sequencing.
Dudley Henriques

"Dudley Henriques" wrote

I also believe that the investigation will reveal additional factors
involving the prebriefed pattern sequencing and errors within that
sequencing.

Right.

Until the report comes out, everyone, lets all STFU, and honor the request
of the P-51 community to let the conjecture end. Let the thread die a
natural death.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote

I also believe that the investigation will reveal additional factors
involving the prebriefed pattern sequencing and errors within that
sequencing.

Right.

Until the report comes out, everyone, lets all STFU, and honor the request
of the P-51 community to let the conjecture end. Let the thread die a
natural death.

Who runs this P-51 community that is trying to run the internet? I havn't
heard from anyone.

Danny Deger