Student Drop-Out Rates...why?

Kyle Boatright wrote:
Even to people who grew up in the 50's and 60's had pilots as heroes. The
guys at Edwards, the Astronauts, etc. Before then, the WWII generation of
pilots had a laundry list of aviation heroes. This brought people into
flying. In today's society, there are no pilot-heroes, and flying isn't
generally regarded as glamorous or as a grand adventure.

I agree with this... societal changes have a lot to do with it. When I was a
kid I was in awe of the "aces" of WWII and Korea. Heck, my Dad was a naval
aviator, flying TBF's and Hellcats in the Pacific in '44 and '45. As a kid I
used to watch Sky King (I still love the looks of a C310!). I could name every
one of the old war movies I used to watch that had an airplane in it.

There are pilot hero's today but they seem to get lost in the noise level of
Rap music and Video games. Why bother to learn to fly when you can fly a
video game or simulator.


Aviation is getting old. I'm 40 now, and for 12 years have been the
youngest person hanging out at airport and the youngest person in my EAA
chapter. When a new guy shows up who's 28, he sees all the old farts (maybe
I'm one too in his eyes), and looks for a younger crowd to hang with. This
doesn't help.

We need to do more as a group to encourage the younger generation. I wish
there were more inspiring movies about aviation... but alas, we're more likely
to see a movie about BTK than some interesting aviator or aviation story.
I am doing the best I can, and have taken several people on their very first
airplane ride in my airplane. My payment was the look on their face as we
left the runway and climbed into the sky.

"Kyle Boatright" wrote:
Aviation is getting old. I'm 40 now, and for 12 years have been the
youngest person hanging out at airport and the youngest person in my EAA
chapter. When a new guy shows up who's 28, he sees all the old farts (maybe
I'm one too in his eyes), and looks for a younger crowd to hang with. This
doesn't help.

I agree with that. Most under 30 at our airport are only there to get
whatever ratings they need to get to the airlines and then they're outta
there. Nearly everyone that "hangs out" there, socializes there, flies
together for *fun* outside of training, is at least 40 and up, and the
40-60s are the "younger" ones. The majority are 60+ ... not that there's
anything wrong with that!!

I've heard anecdotaly there are a disproportionate number of dropouts
immediately after soloing, and the suspicion is that for some, the main
goal to conquer is flying alone. Once they do that, they feel 'done',
even if it means that they never fly again, or don't ever get their
ticket.

That's odd, to me -- the solo flight was never the be-all and end-all. I
remember that flight as if it were yesterday (who doesn't?), and all I could
think of was that the prelude was finally over. *NOW* I could really start
learning to fly.

Perhaps that's something the CFI must learn to teach?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...

Aviation is getting old. I'm 40 now, and for 12 years have been the
youngest person hanging out at airport and the youngest person in my EAA
chapter. When a new guy shows up who's 28, he sees all the old farts
(maybe
I'm one too in his eyes), and looks for a younger crowd to hang with.
This
doesn't help.

Maybe there needs to be a aviation sector of the "X" games. I'm only half
kidding.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
That aside, can you name some other reasons for the abysmal drop-out rate
of student pilots? What can we do to make flying more accessible to
those who dream of piloting an aircraft?

Kyle Boatright wrote:
Even to people who grew up in the 50's and 60's had pilots as heroes. The
guys at Edwards, the Astronauts, etc. Before then, the WWII generation of
pilots had a laundry list of aviation heroes. This brought people into
flying. In today's society, there are no pilot-heroes, and flying isn't
generally regarded as glamorous or as a grand adventure.

I grew up watching RIPCORD, SKY KING and WHIRLYBIRDS. The X-15 program
was in full swing and the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo programs continued
to evolve. The Air Force was making nightly sonic booms during the
summer. The then new Boeing 727's were crashing at irregular intervals
at KCVG (Cincinnati). My Dad was taking me flying when stars lined up
properly.

Aviation is getting old. I'm 40 now, and for 12 years have been the
youngest person hanging out at airport and the youngest person in my EAA
chapter. When a new guy shows up who's 28, he sees all the old farts (maybe
I'm one too in his eyes), and looks for a younger crowd to hang with. This
doesn't help.

I was 25 when I got my PPL, so I was hanging with the EAA chapter guys
in their 50's+, as well.
Probably one of the differences was that our chapter did monthly flyouts
for lunch and invited anyone who wanted to go.
I took advantage of the opportunity to learn from the greybeards.
We fly in and out of alot of private grass strips of all shapes, sizes
and obstacles.
I got involved in a restoration project and learned how to do fabic work.
I ride shared a trip to Sun N Fun and learned how to fly Chinese style
(One-Wing-Low) to get all the fuel out of a tank for max range.
I got my tailwheel endorsement and got to fly several Vintage
taildraggers that I otherwise would not have had the opportunity to.

I learned to fly at a university with a flight school, so there were
numberous younger pilots to hang with all the time. Sure, they were in
aviation for the job, while I was in it for the enjoyment and knowledge,
but we still found common ground and had fun.

I've seen that happen locally time after time. We've got a rather weak
support system for new students at our airport. We have no full time flight
school, but rather part time CFI's that devote every free moment of their
time to help people learn to fly.

The CFI's lease a couple planes, nothing fancy, and do their best to keep
them flying, we have no FBO.
Scheduling is done online, no FBO services to help the student, only the CFI
and when the CFI is at his/her full time job, the student is left to fend
for himself. The only support available for him is through telephone calls
to the CFI. What I have seen is that prior to solo, the student has a
terrific support system. Every flight is with a CFI, typically there are
other students and pilots around during these times to encourage them. The
student is typically also going to ground school and feels comfortable in
the presence of other novices. After solo, the student feels "lost" or
alone. The student experiences the "cold shoulder" of the experienced
pilots, IF he even sees any other pilots at all, often our airport is
deserted. Everything becomes less predictable, the support fades away, and
it is no longer fun. Other things become more fun and soon their love of
aviation is replaced by something that they may not love as much, but have
more fun doing.

Jim

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 03:48:39 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

snipped...
Off the top of my head I can think of three reasons (other than being scared
out of the cockpit) for the continuing drop-out conundrum:

1. CFI shuffling - You just get comfortable with an instructor, and off to
the regionals they go, leaving you to start all over with a new CFI...
2. Airport "snobbery" -- You walk into an FBO, prepared to spend thousands,
and you feel like an alien being on a strange world.
3. No Syllabus -- Too many CFIs work off the seat of their pants, without a
formal lesson plan. This drove me nuts, when I was getting my ticket.

You'll notice I've not mentioned the Number One reason people mention for
quitting: Money. We've beaten the relative cost of flying to death, and (for
the purposes of this thread) I will just leave it at this: Learning to fly
is about as expensive as a semester of college, and less expensive than
buying a Harley-Davidson motorcycle. Let's leave "cost" out of this, for
now, as I think it's safe to say that there a millions of Americans who
could easily afford to learn to fly, if the urge were to strike.

That aside, can you name some other reasons for the abysmal drop-out rate of
student pilots? What can we do to make flying more accessible to those
who dream of piloting an aircraft?

Jay, you cannot remove cost from the analysis. It is probably the
most significant factor. You are correct that it cost less than an HD
motorcycle to learn to fly and you are also correct that there are
millions of Americans who could easily afford to fly. Those issues
are more relevant to the recruiting effort than they are to drop-out
rate.

I believe that the reason that cost is such an impediment is because
many, many students enter into the learning process without having a
clear understanding of what the costs are. Some of them are
delusional and simply don't want to acknowledge the true costs to
their concious minds. Others, I beleive, have been lured in by very
misleading advertising and/or promotional materials from flight
schools. Many of these list the FAA requirements for obtaining a PP
certificate and imply that those minimums will get the job done.
Typically, 50%, or more, flying time is required. Combine those with
the folks that simply miscalculated the impact that this would have on
their household budgets and you have a serious issue. Remember, we're
talking about drop-outs, not the untapped resource of affluent
candidates.

There are other issues that impact this problem, as well. Many
students begin the process without a clear understanding of the level
of commitment and work that is involved. They think that learning to
fly would be cool, but when faced with the books and work involved,
they bolt. This obviously implies a lack of commitment, but I think
that the lack of commitment (and understanding of the required effort)
is another major factor in students abandoning the dream.

Yet another factor is the phenomenon of the student who aspires to
solo an airplane but is not committed to following the process to its
prescribed end. I have trouble understanding this, but that doesn't
make it a less viable option for those that think this way.

Still others, begin with the proper attitude and expectations but
along the way they realize that it is not all that they expected it
would be. They begin to wonder what they're going to do with the
license and eventually determine that their money would be better
spent elsewhere. Again, I cannot imagine thinking that way, but they
are not me.

I think all of the above factors are larger contributing factors to
the drop-out rate than being scared out of the cockpit. Finally, I
know that I've said this already, but I think it's critical that we
not confuse factors that contribute to the drop-out rate with those
that are keeping new qualified potential pilots from beginning the
process in the first place.
Rich Russell

On 2005-08-19, Jay Honeck wrote:
In another thread, we have been hashing out whether some pilots in training
quit flying because of a hair-raising event, such as a brush with disaster,
or getting lost.

My pet theories.

Many people think about learning to fly as it'd be a great way to
travel. They are used to at least a modest new car, which is
comfortable, quiet and airconditioned and breaks down so infrequently
you may never personally experience one. They are used to all sorts of
modern technologies.

Then they start.

They discover on their first flight that the aircraft was probably built
before they were born. They discover that if an aviation mechanic from
1945 was transported forwards in time to 2005, that mechanic would be
almost completely at home with the trainer. They find the aircraft is
about half the width of a compact car, and as for air conditioning,
forget it. They discover that unlike their state's driving handbook
which is a slim volume, the FAR/AIM is a massive tome that makes Tom
Clancy look like a concise and interesting writer by comparison. They
discover the weight limitations of even a fairly powerful single engine
plane like a Beech Bonanza is so low that they can't take three adult
friends flying with them if they have full tanks - let alone their
trainer! And they can't even fly that Bonanza until they have 500 total
time and 25 in type. They find that to even fly through relatively
benign clouds, they are going to have to do another rating that's even
more work than the private. The trainer they are flying has seen better
days - it has a poor paint job, the interior is worn, a radio is
placarded inop, it leaks oil.

They hang on for a bit because they boasted to their friends how they
were going to become a pilot, and therefore don't want to lose face by
immediately giving up - so they make it to solo so they can say they've
done it.

The result? Only the really passionate about flying for the sake of
flying continue, or those who want to become an airline pilot continue.
Those who enjoy flying, but equally well enjoy sailing or golf go
sailing or golfing instead. The environment is set up that only the most
passionate will ever go onto getting their private and continue flying
for years to come.

Even if you instantly did away with the knackered old trainers and had
brand new, state of the art trainers with AC and glass cockpits, the
amount of time needed just to get the private and to be able to fly only
in nice weather would mean that mainly just the passionate would
complete their training.

Getting to solo may be a sufficient goal to satisfy some, once they
realize that flying isn't as useful as they thought it might be, or as
fun as they thought it might be. So, getting to solo "proves
themselves", but once there, they are happy.

Are you any different? You stopped at one engine. All this noise about
trailers at Oshkosh and you are still flying a slow, single engine
airplane with a growing family. What is keeping you, who love aviation
so much, from getting a twin rating and buying something that can
acutally =haul= the stuff you want to take to OSH along with six
friends, and at three hundred knots to boot, icing be damned?

Scale down those reasons, and I think you'll see why some other people
stop at solo, or at their certificate and a few hours, or just fade away.

Another thing to consider is that the romance of flying has changed in
the last fifty years. In the early days, it was a true adventure to get
into one of those contraptions, and you would be one of the few who
dared. Nowadays, flying is pretty ordinary - people get in the aluminum
tube all the time. Granted, those aren't airplanes, they are apartment
buildings with wings on them, but the public sees them as aircraft. GPS
takes the fun out of navigation, there's a lot more air traffic and
alphabet airspace to weave through, and while flying is still as much
=fun= as it used to be, it is also less =special= in the eyes of the
public (from whom we draw our students). Subtlely this may also have
something to do with the dropout rate.

Money and time are important reasons too, but to this I add distraction
- the myriad other things to do that there didn't used to be, that are
easy to do and beckon people's time away from them. Flying takes more
oomph (especially when you live half an hour from the airport) than just
sitting at the internet.

And the FAA doesn't help things at all when they don't even let you take
passengers any more except if you have "common purpose" and a "previous
relationship" and aren't "holding out" (say by telling your dorm friends
that you'd love to take any of them home for the holidays just because
you love to fly) and at that can't share your expenses fully. And (as
evidenced in another thread) it's a good idea to brief your passengers
on what not to say in case you get "caught" by the FAA giving rides.

I'd say that number one on the list of things that should be done to
help increase the number of pilots is to roll back the FAA's silly
compensation rules to the way it was twenty years ago, and encourage
private pilots to share the joys of flight. I bet we'd get a mix of new
students with more lasting enthusiasm for flight to begin with.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jay Honeck wrote:

That aside, can you name some other reasons for the abysmal drop-out rate
of student pilots?Â*Â*Â*Â*

Are you sure that this is the right question? Perhaps the drop-out rate is
fine, and what we need to do is get more people "through the door".

I noticed a blurb this morning in the current IFR on a course for HS
students designed to use aviation to increase interest in science. I don't
know anything about this, but I plan to learn. It sounds like a very
exciting avenue for getting more people interested in aviation.

- Andrew