Asg29 very slow water dumping issue (20+ minutes and wings still halffull or more)

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 6:31:42 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 6:48:05 AM UTC-5, Sean wrote:
This has been a problem since late this summer. Asymmetric and or slow dumping.

After having the valves open today for (guessing) 20+ minutes (to be sure it was dry) I landed to find the wings with significant water (10-15 gallons a side) still on-board. Water flows thru the outboard panels so they are clear. The valves seem to be opening fine on the ground. We checked the outer panel for flow carefully this am before flying. Water flowed thru easily when the full wing was lowered slightly.

This is quite a mystery. It cost me significantly today. I thought I was empty but was still well over 10 lb/ft I'm guessing by the amount of water still in the wings when I had landed. It took 5-7 minutes for the water to dump AFTER I had landed.

Any ideas on what could be cuasing an excessively slow dump cycle? Anyone else having this problem? What else should I check for? What is the expected dump time for a 29? I use 6 minutes to be safe usually.

Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe I thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank valve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail? Even if this was the case it was 7-10 minutes from my last "thermal" to the ground and the water was flowing fine out of each wing valve when I landed. So the right valve handle was opened at this point. This should have emptied the wings alone easily, to say nothing if the 10-20 minutes the valves were open in occasional dumps before that point.

Thanks in advance for ideas...

Sincerely,

Sean

List of stuff to look at:
1- verify dump valves open fully
2- Make sure connector tubes from vents are not pinched. Easy to pinch if assembling quickly.
3- Verify that all vent lines are clear, both in tips and to inner tanks.
4- Use drilled fill caps(1/4 hole) , with check valve inside to allow air in but not out
As a diagnostic do dump test on the ground with caps off. It will differ from the air but not hugely.
My guess is poor venting from experience.
UH

Like others, my experience with this was the vent tube of one wing (for me, consistently the same one) but it hasn't made for a 20-minute drain time.
Need to find the right way to clean and possibly lubricate the tapered fitting on the inner panel so the outer panel tube slides on rather than kink.
ACF-50 works well on the TE probe, might be the thing here too.
My tank caps have one-way valves. I've heard air pressure equalising on removal of the outer panel after flying dry.
Now I always check the vent at the bottom of the winglet before taping the outer panel.
Jim

And Sean, did you get my PM to your RAS post address?
Jim

This happened to me, the cause was the paddles that push the rods at wing root were not pushing far enough. There is an adjuster screw, the paddles should be just barely loose when the lever is in the off position, so it pushes as far as possible in the dump position. There is an adjustment procedure in the manual.

John Cochrane BB

Thanks all. Off to the airport to try all of these ideas.

Sean

I'm with Hank - start with venting. I did the one-way valve mode on the filler caps, and my wings consistently drain much more quickly than factory original. Also, I had the exact symptom you are talking about at Harris Hill last year with a pinched vent tube in the right wing. Also, once pinched, they are more likely to get pinched again since they develop a memory crease.

As a quick test with the wings full, put tape over the vent outlet in the wingtip while you open the valves, then peel the tape. There should be a very distinct improvement in dump rate.

P3

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 8:39:26 AM UTC-5, Kevin Christner wrote:
Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe I thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank valve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail?

Based upon your known history of RAS multiple personality disorder its highly likely that you opened your dump valve then experienced what appeared to be a 15 minute time lapse during your Wilbur phase. When Sean regained control of your mind it had really only been 3 minutes. Be careful over there Sean (Wilbur). Such mental lapses could get someone killed during ATs with 40+ gliders playing chicken that you have so often demanded.

I'm glad I could help clear things up for Sean (Wilbur) and issue this friendly safety warning to the rest of the WGC field.

Kevin, what is wrong with you and this personal attack? Do you have a bad day?

Thanks all. I adjusted the range and the valve was only opening 3 to half of max. It's now max. Photos attached.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0VGdFryYGOiuZv

Very happy to have learned this.

Best,

Sean
7T

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 4:16:38 PM UTC-7, Sean wrote:
Thanks all. I adjusted the range and the valve was only opening 3 to half of max. It's now max. Photos attached.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0VGdFryYGOiuZv

Very happy to have learned this.

Best,

Sean
7T

Sean,
Excellent! Good luck on today's task and for the rest of the contest!
Now, be safe out there.....and have fun!
Renny

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 3:28:36 PM UTC-8, Renny wrote:
On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 4:16:38 PM UTC-7, Sean wrote:
Thanks all. I adjusted the range and the valve was only opening 3 to half of max. It's now max. Photos attached.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0VGdFryYGOiuZv

Very happy to have learned this.

Best,

Sean
7T

Sean,
Excellent! Good luck on today's task and for the rest of the contest!
Now, be safe out there.....and have fun!
Renny

Glad you found it Sean. Good luck & fly safe.

Craig
7Q

On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 6:48:05 AM UTC-5, Sean wrote:
This has been a problem since late this summer. Asymmetric and or slow dumping.

After having the valves open today for (guessing) 20+ minutes (to be sure it was dry) I landed to find the wings with significant water (10-15 gallons a side) still on-board. Water flows thru the outboard panels so they are clear. The valves seem to be opening fine on the ground. We checked the outer panel for flow carefully this am before flying. Water flowed thru easily when the full wing was lowered slightly.

This is quite a mystery. It cost me significantly today. I thought I was empty but was still well over 10 lb/ft I'm guessing by the amount of water still in the wings when I had landed. It took 5-7 minutes for the water to dump AFTER I had landed.

Any ideas on what could be cuasing an excessively slow dump cycle? Anyone else having this problem? What else should I check for? What is the expected dump time for a 29? I use 6 minutes to be safe usually.

Maybe I was perceiving actual dump time wrong (need a stopwatch)? Maybe I thought only 3 minutes was 10-15? Maybe I was my using the fuselage tank valve handle accidentally and not the wing/tail? Even if this was the case it was 7-10 minutes from my last "thermal" to the ground and the water was flowing fine out of each wing valve when I landed. So the right valve handle was opened at this point. This should have emptied the wings alone easily, to say nothing if the 10-20 minutes the valves were open in occasional dumps before that point.

Thanks in advance for ideas...

Sincerely,

Sean

By the way good flying yesterday!