UK Mode S. Our responce is required

See the BGA link below.

http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/air...ansponders.htm


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gAiL

In the UK anything that flies anywhere in UK Airspace
will have to be fitted with Mode S transponders from
March 2008, if the Civil Aviation Authority gets its
way. This includes light aircraft, gliders, hang gliders,
balloons and probably even parascenders. There may,
at best be, a temporary exemption until suitable battery
powered equipment is available for non-powered aircraft.

For once we can't even blame Europe for this repressive
piece of legislation, as these requirements will only
apply for flying in the higher classes of controlled
airspace in the other EC Countries.

From a glider pilot's point of view, buying and fitting
this equipment is expensive - about £3000 (more than
many older and vintage gliders cost in total) , requires
a licence and regular skilled maintenance, will probably
require an extra dedicated battery to be fitted which
has to come out of our MAUW, and exposes us to fairly
continual 20 watt radio emissions that most glider
structures will not shield us from.

The justifications for this from the CAA include allowing
Airliners to detect us as they take short cuts through
Class G airspace to save fuel and make bigger profits
for their companies(although there is no suitable currently
available equipment beyond the Mark 1 eyeball for us
to detect them or any other aircraft), allowing them
to charge us for the use of airspace, separating out
false returns from windfarm turbines, and allowing
UAVs to roam around our countryside. As far as I know,
most of the latter are operated by the US Airforce,
so once again we are being screwed by the so-called
'special relationship' with the States, and our Prime
Minister Tony Blairs's refusal to say 'boo' to anything
George W asks for!

For the majority of glider pilots, these proposals
will mean the end of UK gliding. Please respond to
to CAA consultation document as per the link below
and write to politicians if you are in a position to
do so.

Derek Copeland


At 10:18 02 August 2006, Gail wrote:
See the BGA link below.

http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/air...ansponders.htm


-|-
-----===()===-----


gAiL

Derek Copeland wrote:
In the UK anything that flies anywhere in UK Airspace
will have to be fitted with Mode S transponders from
March 2008, if the Civil Aviation Authority gets its
way.

Excellent notion!

We will finally be able to protect our UAV's from the depredations
of the UK glider community. Peace in our time.


Jack

C'mon - Why would gdubya send uavs out there to harass
the bga? Can't fault the europeans so blame the US.




At 06:18 04 August 2006, Derek Copeland wrote:
In the UK anything that flies anywhere in UK Airspace
will have to be fitted with Mode S transponders from
March 2008, if the Civil Aviation Authority gets its
way. This includes light aircraft, gliders, hang gliders,
balloons and probably even parascenders. There may,
at best be, a temporary exemption until suitable battery
powered equipment is available for non-powered aircraft.

For once we can't even blame Europe for this repressive
piece of legislation, as these requirements will only
apply for flying in the higher classes of controlled
airspace in the other EC Countries.

From a glider pilot's point of view, buying and fitting
this equipment is expensive - about £3000 (more than
many older and vintage gliders cost in total) , requires
a licence and regular skilled maintenance, will probably
require an extra dedicated battery to be fitted which
has to come out of our MAUW, and exposes us to fairly
continual 20 watt radio emissions that most glider
structures will not shield us from.

The justifications for this from the CAA include allowing
Airliners to detect us as they take short cuts through
Class G airspace to save fuel and make bigger profits
for their companies(although there is no suitable currently
available equipment beyond the Mark 1 eyeball for us
to detect them or any other aircraft), allowing them
to charge us for the use of airspace, separating out
false returns from windfarm turbines, and allowing
UAVs to roam around our countryside. As far as I know,
most of the latter are operated by the US Airforce,
so once again we are being screwed by the so-called
'special relationship' with the States, and our Prime
Minister Tony Blairs's refusal to say 'boo' to anything
George W asks for!

For the majority of glider pilots, these proposals
will mean the end of UK gliding. Please respond to
to CAA consultation document as per the link below
and write to politicians if you are in a position to
do so.

Derek Copeland


At 10:18 02 August 2006, Gail wrote:
See the BGA link below.

http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/air...ansponders.htm


-|-
-----===()===-----


gAiL

C'mon - Why would gdubya send uavs out there to harass
the bga? Can't fault the europeans so blame the US.




At 06:18 04 August 2006, Derek Copeland wrote:
In the UK anything that flies anywhere in UK Airspace
will have to be fitted with Mode S transponders from
March 2008, if the Civil Aviation Authority gets its
way. This includes light aircraft, gliders, hang gliders,
balloons and probably even parascenders. There may,
at best be, a temporary exemption until suitable battery
powered equipment is available for non-powered aircraft.

For once we can't even blame Europe for this repressive
piece of legislation, as these requirements will only
apply for flying in the higher classes of controlled
airspace in the other EC Countries.

From a glider pilot's point of view, buying and fitting
this equipment is expensive - about £3000 (more than
many older and vintage gliders cost in total) , requires
a licence and regular skilled maintenance, will probably
require an extra dedicated battery to be fitted which
has to come out of our MAUW, and exposes us to fairly
continual 20 watt radio emissions that most glider
structures will not shield us from.

The justifications for this from the CAA include allowing
Airliners to detect us as they take short cuts through
Class G airspace to save fuel and make bigger profits
for their companies(although there is no suitable currently
available equipment beyond the Mark 1 eyeball for us
to detect them or any other aircraft), allowing them
to charge us for the use of airspace, separating out
false returns from windfarm turbines, and allowing
UAVs to roam around our countryside. As far as I know,
most of the latter are operated by the US Airforce,
so once again we are being screwed by the so-called
'special relationship' with the States, and our Prime
Minister Tony Blairs's refusal to say 'boo' to anything
George W asks for!

For the majority of glider pilots, these proposals
will mean the end of UK gliding. Please respond to
to CAA consultation document as per the link below
and write to politicians if you are in a position to
do so.

Derek Copeland


At 10:18 02 August 2006, Gail wrote:
See the BGA link below.

http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgainfo/air...ansponders.htm


-|-
-----===()===-----


gAiL

Derek Copeland wrote:

From a glider pilot's point of view, buying and fitting
this equipment is expensive - about £3000 (more than
many older and vintage gliders cost in total) , requires
a licence and regular skilled maintenance, will probably
require an extra dedicated battery to be fitted which
has to come out of our MAUW, and exposes us to fairly
continual 20 watt radio emissions that most glider
structures will not shield us from.

While you have much to fear from this proposal, 20 watts isn't one of
them. The current mode C transponder transmits between 0 and about 3
watts average power, depending on the interogation rate (peak power is
much higher, but very short duration). Mode S transmits even less power
on average, because it doesn't respond to every interrogation it receives.

The justifications for this from the CAA include allowing
Airliners to detect us as they take short cuts through
Class G airspace to save fuel and make bigger profits
for their companies(although there is no suitable currently
available equipment beyond the Mark 1 eyeball for us
to detect them or any other aircraft),

There are several transponder signal detectors on the market that will
allow you to detect airliner and general aviation transponders. They
vary in their ability to give you range and direction, and the cost
varies from ~$300US to ~$800US. Some glider pilots already use these.
What isn't clear to me is how useful they are if all transponders are
Mode S. I expect it to be the same as with the mode C transponders, but
I haven't read anything on the subject.
--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA

www.motorglider.org - Download "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane
Operation"

I have recently purchased a SparrowHawk glider which here in the US.
Since it weighs less than 155lbs operates under part 103 of the FARS as
an ultralight vehicle not requiring registration, a pilot license and
is transparent to County Tax authorities as are hangliders etc. I
operate close to Reno International Airport and very close to the
southern approach to that airport and have had airliners approach
within one half a mile of me apparently without knowledge of my
presence. This is unacceptabe and a collision must be avoided period.
So I stay clear the airspace where it is most probable to find an
airliner. That having been said I have on order a Becker Transponder
and will install in the SparrowHawk asap with a substantial battery so
that airliner's TAS can see me and take collision avoidance if
necessary.
I have followed the arguments and complaints against the use of
transponders in gliders and small planes and am not sympathetic! We are
all flying in crowded airspaces where there are the possibilities of
collisions and the deaths of many people say between an airliner and a
glider. This can be mostly prevented by the use of transponders, a
vigilant ATC and TAS. The cost - about $2000. How can any intelligent
person argue against that. Are some people so illiterate that they have
no appreciation about cost benefit analysis to not understand that this
is one of the best deals ever? What do you think is going to happen to
glider privileges after the first airliner is brought down? Remember
gliders are virtually invisible except when turning if at your
altitude!!
As to mode S. I am neutral to it. It does not increase safety. It
does allow near instant indentification of an aircraft which may be
useful to ATC - maybe? How will it affect me with the SparrowHawk? I
will probably have to be assigned a special ID.
Dave

wrote:
The cost - about $2000. How can any intelligent
person argue against that. Are some people so illiterate that they have
no appreciation about cost benefit analysis to not understand that this
is one of the best deals ever?

The Becker 4401 alone costs roughly US$2000, you still need an encoder,
antenna, and wiring harness, which adds at least another $500. Add
typical shop rates, and the actual installed cost in a certified glider
will be a minimum of $4000 (I know, I've paid for it). The operating
limitations on most experimental gliders would require an IA sign off,
so even in that case, most will be paying a shop for the install.

I fly in the Reno area, too, so most of the gliders I've owned over the
years have had transponders (seeing a Southwest 737 up close and
personal tends to encourage one to pay the price). But, there are a lot
of us who can barely afford what we already have invested in our
gliders. So, it's not quite the slam dunk you think it is...

Marc

" wrote:

I have recently purchased a SparrowHawk glider which here in the US.
Since it weighs less than 155lbs operates under part 103 of the FARS as
an ultralight vehicle not requiring registration, a pilot license and
is transparent to County Tax authorities as are hangliders etc. I
operate close to Reno International Airport and very close to the
southern approach to that airport and have had airliners approach
within one half a mile of me apparently without knowledge of my
presence. This is unacceptabe and a collision must be avoided period.
So I stay clear the airspace where it is most probable to find an
airliner. That having been said I have on order a Becker Transponder
and will install in the SparrowHawk asap with a substantial battery so
that airliner's TAS can see me and take collision avoidance if
necessary.
I have followed the arguments and complaints against the use of
transponders in gliders and small planes and am not sympathetic! We are
all flying in crowded airspaces where there are the possibilities of
collisions and the deaths of many people say between an airliner and a
glider. This can be mostly prevented by the use of transponders, a
vigilant ATC and TAS. The cost - about $2000. How can any intelligent
person argue against that. Are some people so illiterate that they have
no appreciation about cost benefit analysis to not understand that this
is one of the best deals ever? What do you think is going to happen to
glider privileges after the first airliner is brought down? Remember
gliders are virtually invisible except when turning if at your
altitude!!
As to mode S. I am neutral to it. It does not increase safety. It
does allow near instant indentification of an aircraft which may be
useful to ATC - maybe? How will it affect me with the SparrowHawk? I
will probably have to be assigned a special ID.
Dave

I manage an airstrip close to a CTR and close to the final approach
path to the international airport inside the CTR. We have an agreement
with the airspace authority which confines our flight paths to a safe
area.

A visiting pilot was given a transponder code and told to keep it
selected on his departure scheduled for 15 minutes after landing,
which he duly did. This caused a TCAS alert on a landing passenger
jet. Our agreement now specifies transponders switched off (not even
squawking standby) within 5 miles of our strip.

Resident pilots already knew the danger, so this was the first
instance of this problem, and ATC had to accept the blame.

Dave,

The Sparrowhawk is so small that it presents an almost insignificant
collision hazard to a 737. Heck, the big jets bug-wipers should take care of
you handily!! (grin)

Okay, okay, I agree and use a transponder too. Also, I suspect I'm one of
only a few who use a TPAS (transponder passive alert system), a Proxalert R5
in my glider. It's comforting to know, as one approaches the bases of those
fluffy things, that a big airplane isn't nearby and going to descend out of
one to test his bug wipers on you.

all the best,

bumper


wrote in message
ups.com...
I have recently purchased a SparrowHawk glider which here in the US.
Since it weighs less than 155lbs operates under part 103 of the FARS as
an ultralight vehicle not requiring registration, a pilot license and
is transparent to County Tax authorities as are hangliders etc. I
operate close to Reno International Airport and very close to the
southern approach to that airport and have had airliners approach
within one half a mile of me apparently without knowledge of my
presence. This is unacceptabe and a collision must be avoided period.
So I stay clear the airspace where it is most probable to find an
airliner. That having been said I have on order a Becker Transponder
and will install in the SparrowHawk asap with a substantial battery so
that airliner's TAS can see me and take collision avoidance if
necessary.
I have followed the arguments and complaints against the use of
transponders in gliders and small planes and am not sympathetic! We are
all flying in crowded airspaces where there are the possibilities of
collisions and the deaths of many people say between an airliner and a
glider. This can be mostly prevented by the use of transponders, a
vigilant ATC and TAS. The cost - about $2000. How can any intelligent
person argue against that. Are some people so illiterate that they have
no appreciation about cost benefit analysis to not understand that this
is one of the best deals ever? What do you think is going to happen to
glider privileges after the first airliner is brought down? Remember
gliders are virtually invisible except when turning if at your
altitude!!
As to mode S. I am neutral to it. It does not increase safety. It
does allow near instant indentification of an aircraft which may be
useful to ATC - maybe? How will it affect me with the SparrowHawk? I
will probably have to be assigned a special ID.
Dave