GAO Report: GA Security Threat

wrote in message ...

If Saddam's commanders didn't believe there were chem/bio weapons in
theater,
why'd they bother with the 10's of thousands of chem/bio suits and
injectors?

Because Saddam figured his _enemies_ would use chem/bio??

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 06:56:42 +0000, Robert Perkins wrote:

In Germany, the subject simply never comes up in polite conversation.
The topic of Nazi's is banned in Germany. The norm by now is expected to
be widespread ignorance of that part of their history.

There is one thing I should add. AFAIK the discussion of the Third Reich
was not an official part of the curriculum in West Germany for some time
after the war. I think it was somewhere in the 60s or maybe even 70s when
they added it. I guess it took some time for them to figure out how to
present it to the next generation.

- Holger

Holger,

I think it was somewhere in the 60s or maybe even 70s when
they added it.


The change was both one of the main reasons for and consequences of the
student protests of the late 60s.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Holger,

I wished Thomas Borchert, as a German, would have voiced his political
position a bit more diplomatically in a predominantly American forum.


Do you see any "diplomacy" in the way the US view is presented here? Or
the slander of the German society? I sure don't.

This has everything to do with the ugly face of war and little
with the relationship between Germany and the United States and their
people.

I'm not sure I agree. A good part of the American people, and their
politicians for sure, have change a lot during the last two years. Some
of that change is, well, let's say, hard to understand. Oh, and I know
many Americans who agree vehemently.


--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Just to keep this barely sorta on topic....

I moved the german stories to the front of the list

enjoy....

Blll

The German air controllers at Frankfurt Airport are renowned as a
short-tempered lot. They not only expect one to know one's gate parking
location, but how to get there without any assistance from them. So it was with
some amusement that we (a Pan Am 747) listened to the following exchange
between Frankfurt ground control and a British
Airways 747, call sign Speedbird 206":

Speedbird 206: "Frankfurt, Speedbird 206 clear of active runway."

Ground: "Speedbird 206. Taxi to gate Alpha One-Seven."

The BA 747 pulled onto the main taxiway and slowed to a stop.

Ground: "Speedbird, do you not know vhere you are going?"

Speedbird 206: "Stand by, Ground, I'm looking up our gate location now."

Ground (with quite arrogant impatience): "Speedbird 206, have you not been to
Frankfurt before?"

Speedbird 206 (coolly): "Yes, twice in 1944 but I didn't stop."


A Pan Am 727 flight waiting for start clearance in Munich overheard the
following:

Lufthansa (in German): "Ground, what is our start clearance time?"

Ground (in English): "If you want an answer you must speak in English."

Lufthansa (in English): "I am a German, flying a German airplane, in Germany.
Why must I speak English?"

Unknown voice from another plane (in a beautiful British accent): "Because you
lost the bloody war!"


O'Hare Approach Control to a 747: "United 329 heavy, your traffic is a Fokker,
one o'clock, three miles, eastbound."

United 239: "Approach, I've always wanted to say this... I've got the little
Fokker in sight."


While taxiing at London Gatwick, the crew of a US Air flight departing for Ft.
Lauderdale made a wrong turn and came nose to nose with a United 727.

An irate female ground controller lashed out at the US Air crew, screaming: "US
Air 2771, where the hell are you going?! I told you to turn right onto Charlie
taxiway! You turned right on Delta! Stop right there. I know it's difficult for
you to tell the difference between C' and D', but get it right!"

Continuing her rage to the embarrassed crew, she was now shouting hysterically:
"God! Now you've screwed everything up! It'll take forever to sort this out!
You stay right there and don't move till I tell you to! You can expect
progressive taxi instructions in about half an hour and I want you to go
exactly where I tell you, when I tell you, and how I tell you! You got that, US
Air 2771?"

"Yes ma'am," the humbled crew responded.

Naturally, the ground control communications frequency fell terribly silent
after the verbal bashing of US Air 2771. Nobody wanted to chance engaging the
irate ground controller in her current state of mind. Tension in every cockpit
out in Gatwick was definitely running high.

Just then an unknown pilot broke the silence and keyed his microphone, asking:
"Wasn't I married to you once?"

===========

A DC-10 had come in a little hot and thus had an exceedingly long roll out
after touching down.

San Jose Tower Noted: "American 751, make a hard right turn at the end of the
runway, if you are able... If not able, take the Guadalupe exit off Highway
101, make
a right at the lights and return to the airport."

===========

Unknown aircraft waiting in a very long takeoff queue: "I'm f...ing bored!"

Ground Traffic Control: "Last aircraft transmitting, identify yourself
immediately!"

Unknown aircraft: "I said I was f...ing bored, not f...ing stupid!"

===========

Tower: "Eastern 702, cleared for takeoff, contact Departure on frequency 124.7"

Eastern 702: "Tower, Eastern 702 switching to Departure. By the way, after we
lifted off we saw some kind of dead animal on the far end of the runway."

Tower: "Continental 635, cleared for takeoff behind Eastern 702, contact
Departure on frequency 124.7. Did you copy that report from Eastern 702?"

Continental 635: "Continental 635, cleared for takeoff, roger; and yes, we
copied Eastern... we've already notified our caterers"

===========


===========



===========


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

After every flight, pilots fill out a form called a gripe sheet, which conveys
to the mechanics problems encountered with the aircraft during the flight that
need repair or correction. The mechanics read and correct the problem, and then
respond in writing on the lower half of the form what remedial action was
taken, and the pilot reviews the gripe sheets before the next flight.

Never let it be said that ground crews and engineers lack a sense of humor.

Here are some actual logged maintenance complaints and problems as submitted by
Qantas pilots and the solution recorded by maintenance engineers.

By the way, Qantas is the only major airline that has never had an accident.

(P = The problem logged by the pilot.)
(S = The solution and action taken by the engineers.)

P: Left inside main tire almost needs replacement.
S: Almost replaced left inside main tire.

P: Test flight OK, except auto-land very rough.
S: Auto-land not installed on this aircraft.

P: Something loose in cockpit.
S: Something tightened in cockpit.

P: Dead bugs on windshield.
S: Live bugs on backorder.

P: Autopilot in altitude-hold mode produces a 200 feet per minute descent.
S: Cannot reproduce problem on ground.

P: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.
S: Evidence removed.

P: DME volume unbelievably loud.
S: DME volume set to more believable level.

P: Friction locks cause throttle levers to stick.
S: That's what they're there for.

P: IFF inoperative.
S: IFF always inoperative in OFF mode.

P: Suspected crack in windshield.
S: Suspect you're right.

P: Number 3 engine missing.
S: Engine found on right wing after brief search.

P: Aircraft handles funny.
S: Aircraft warned to straighten up, fly right, and be serious.

P: Target radar hums.
S: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.

P: Mouse in cockpit.
S: Cat installed.

P: Noise coming from under instrument panel. Sounds like a midget pounding
on something with a hammer.
S: Took hammer away from midget.

"Felger Carbon" wrote:

wrote in message ...

If Saddam's commanders didn't believe there were chem/bio weapons in
theater,
why'd they bother with the 10's of thousands of chem/bio suits and
injectors?

Because Saddam figured his _enemies_ would use chem/bio??

Heh heh heh... that would be like a NFL linebacker bringing in a
baseball bat to beat up a four year old (for the second time). Do you
REALLY thing Saddam thought the US and UK would use WMD after all the
hoopla about how evil they are? That's a REAL reach...

Mark Hickey

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...
"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message
om...
| "C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
| "Thomas Borchert" wrote in message
| ...
| |
| | I can't see much of a difference for the world with Saddam missing (he
| | isn't, really, by the way). I am now absolutely certain - as most news
| | watchers - that Saddam didn't pose nearly the threat that some were
led
| | to believe. There are no WMD, period.
| |
|
| Saddam's own military commanders all believed that Saddam had WMD. They
have
| told investigators that they still believe it.
|
| I'm only aware of one such person and he made claims about nuclear
| weapons which made it clear that he actually knew nothing about them.

Well, I heard it on NPR.

Do you recall the context? E.g. did the NPR speaking head say that or
did the NPR speaking head quote someone else as saying that, or
was someone else being interviewed who said that or did they play
statements from 'all' of Sadam Hussein's own military commanders?
Were ANY of the commanders mentioned by name?

I have speculated that the Iraqi military was so weakened by the
1991 war and ensuing sanctions that Saddam Hussein created the
impression that he was hiding WMDs as a bluff to forstall
military action against his regime from outside or within. But
I don't claim that to be anything but my own speculation.

Let's not forget that he only controlled about 2/3 of his own
country and his control over half of that was marginal.

The man to whom I referred was a defector who was interviewed
in a PBS Frontline broadcast. I'm sorry to say that I do not
remember his name.

--

FF

Larry Smith wrote:

I could have sworn hearing my dad, who was serving in the Philippines at the
end of WWII, telling how some of the Japanese soldiers in the islands
refused to give up and continued to fight, even after the war was over and
Japan had surrendered.

There were some Japanese that were overrun on various islands that
refused to believe that the war was over and they lost. I believe the
last known one to come out was on Guam in the 1970's. The History
Channel did a show on it. They showed footage of a few of these guys
coming out. I don't think they ever shot anybody after the war though.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 12:12:52 +0100, Thomas Borchert wrote:

Do you see any "diplomacy" in the way the US view is presented here? Or
the slander of the German society? I sure don't.

The question is what do you want to achieve with this discussion. It is
well known to most here in the US that a large part of the world disagrees
with the US Iraq politics. In particular Germany and France.

BTW, I didn't see any slandering. Misinformation, sure, but what comes
from you is not free of that either.


This has everything to do with the ugly face of war and little with the
relationship between Germany and the United States and their people.

I'm not sure I agree. A good part of the American people, and their
politicians for sure, have change a lot during the last two years. Some
of that change is, well, let's say, hard to understand. Oh, and I know
many Americans who agree vehemently.

The question is what do you want to achieve with this discussion. It is
well known to most here in the US that a large part of the world disagrees
with the US Iraq politics. In particular Germany and France.

Do you really believe that 280 some mil change within 2 years after
electing a new president? If you don't like them now, you probably didn't
like them before and didn't know it. There were protests here too. But it
is no surprise the larger part of the population supports their
government. You know what Herman Goering said at the Nuernberg trials
(facing the death penalty and not having care much about the consequences
of what he said):

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of
the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to
drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or
a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you
have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the
pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater
danger."

- Holger

"Fred the Red Shirt" wrote in message |
| Do you recall the context?

It was a report from an analyst who is involved in looking for WMD.

It is credible to me because from the very beginning of the war military
authorities have been saying that captured personnel were "cooperating" in
the search for WMD. They probably did believe that other commanders had WMD.
Then the interrogation team would go to those commanders who would say, "No,
we had no WMD in our unit, but so-and-so had them."

They all believed that Iraq had WMD, but that these weapons were all
assigned to some other unit. Of course, all these commanders may not have
been lied to by Saddam, but they simply believed the photos and other stuff
presented by Colin Powell at the UN. Then we are left with the question of
why Saddam seems to have gone to such great lengths to appear to be hiding
WMD when in fact he had none.

Or maybe he really did have WMD, but had no chance to deploy them since they
were all hidden away in inaccessible places. They could have been buried
deep in the sand like the Iraqi Air Force, the location known only to a few,
and those few either dead or in hiding. In that event looking for WMD will
be a lot like looking for the Lost Dutchman mine, the object of treasure
hunters and book authors for centuries to come.