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#11
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Meeting to discuss FLARM in the USA
On 25 Oct, 18:32, "Paul Remde" wrote:
FLARM has become extremely popular in several regions of the world (Europe, and Australia, and ...?), but it has not been "allowed" in the USA so far. However, there are several gliders flying with FLARM here in the USA. It is a great technology solution and safety enhancer. But technical and liability hurdles exist here in the USA. Everyone that I've talked to that uses FLARM in their glider loves it - especially in contests or at crowded soaring sites, or along crowded ridges. I have never used it myself [1] but I was chatting about it just a few days ago with an instructor at a busy ridge site here. His view was that it's a menace: it generates far too many false alarms, and pilots who try to evade non-existent hazards may thereby cause significant danger. What are you supposed to do, he asked, if you get a six-second- t-death warning about a glider which is supposedly dead ahead but which you can't see? He reckoned the main problem was that the system only believes in "cruising" and "thermalling" and gets hopelessly confused by the turn at the end of a beat on the ridge. Ian [1] and have no intention of doing so: I'm profoundly sceptical about a further increase in the number of things to fiddle with and focus on inside the glider. Why not just look out? |
#12
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Meeting to discuss FLARM in the USA
5Z wrote:
On Oct 25, 1:57 pm, "Mike Schumann" mike-nos...@traditions- nospam.com wrote: We don't need FLARM. What we need is a low cost version of ADS-B that is affordable for glider pilots. I agree. But... I doubt ADS-B will have the smarts to provide intelligent warnings and ignore false alerts due to the close proximity we fly in. Actually, the ADS-B specification says nothing about how collisions are detected, it just provides a standardized means of periodically broadcasting aircraft type (e.g. glider), altitude, position, and velocity vector. An uncertified glider specific UAT receiver and threat display could be developed. Or, a future version of SeeYou Mobile or WinPilot could perhaps license the FLARM algorithm, and apply it to the data stream received from a dumb UAT device... Marc |
#13
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Meeting to discuss FLARM in the USA
"5Z" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 25, 1:57 pm, "Mike Schumann" mike-nos...@traditions- nospam.com wrote: We don't need FLARM. What we need is a low cost version of ADS-B that is affordable for glider pilots. I agree. But... I doubt ADS-B will have the smarts to provide intelligent warnings and ignore false alerts due to the close proximity we fly in. I understand FLARM does a good job of recognizing which gliders in the gaggle may pose a threat. Correct? -Tom I have not flown with Flarm but a comment that I received from an experienced pilot flying with his new Flarm unit in a competition this summer was: 'I ended up switching it off half the time because it was going off all the time when thermalling in gaggles' |
#14
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Meeting to discuss FLARM in the USA
Hi,
That is an interesting data point from one person. I sure there are people that turn off their FLARM units from time to time. That seems very... I can't think of a better word than "stupid". I imagine that the FLARM devices can be annoying at times when near a lot of other users. But turning it off seems very similar to the glider pilot that had his transponder turned off and was hit by a jet. However, the feedback I have received from glider pilots in Europe and Australia and New Zealand and more recently the U.K. is that FLARM is an extremely useful safety enhancing device. I don't recall the exact details, but there was a soaring competition in New Zealand or Australia at which everyone was encouraged to try FLARM. I don't know whether it was required, or rented to the pilots, or loaned to them, or... Many of them were very skeptical about FLARM until they tried it. But the end result I heard was that nearly everyone was very impressed with the FLARM units - so much so that they purchased them. I also heard that at least one head-on collision was avoided due to the FLARM units in 2 gliders during the competition. It would be impossible to know how many lives FLARM has saved in the European Alps. My guess is that it has saved many. I'm sure it seems like I'm trying to push new technology so I can sell it. Well... I would like to sell it. But I am sincere in my desire to increase safety. I would love to have FLARM or something similar in all the gliders I fly ASAP. But that would only be of benefit if everyone else in the area (gliders and power planes alike) was also using it. So how can we get there? We have many very intelligent people in soaring. Let's drive a movement to get there. Good Soaring, Paul Remde Cumulus Soaring, Inc. http://www.cumulus-soaring.com "John Wilton" wrote in message om... "5Z" wrote in message ups.com... On Oct 25, 1:57 pm, "Mike Schumann" mike-nos...@traditions- nospam.com wrote: We don't need FLARM. What we need is a low cost version of ADS-B that is affordable for glider pilots. I agree. But... I doubt ADS-B will have the smarts to provide intelligent warnings and ignore false alerts due to the close proximity we fly in. I understand FLARM does a good job of recognizing which gliders in the gaggle may pose a threat. Correct? -Tom I have not flown with Flarm but a comment that I received from an experienced pilot flying with his new Flarm unit in a competition this summer was: 'I ended up switching it off half the time because it was going off all the time when thermalling in gaggles' |
#15
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Meeting to discuss FLARM in the USA
On Oct 26, 8:32 am, 5Z wrote:
I understand FLARM does a good job of recognizing which gliders in the gaggle may pose a threat. Correct? -Tom CORRECT. Nothing else I've seen will look at a similarly equipped towplane at the other end of the rope, or a glider in the same gaggle and tell you it's there but not tell you to leave. Jim |
#16
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Meeting to discuss FLARM in the USA
On Oct 26, 9:07 am, Ian wrote:
SNIP [1] and have no intention of doing so: I'm profoundly sceptical about a further increase in the number of things to fiddle with and focus on inside the glider. Why not just look out? Because your human eyes can't detect most threats on time to avoid it, especially gliders and especially if they are comming from behind or the side. The only exception is during thermaling and maybe traffic pattern where you know when and where to look. See http://dwp.bigplanet.com/fosterflight/scottsrants/ Ramy |
#17
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Meeting to discuss FLARM in the USA
On Oct 26, 8:32 am, 5Z wrote:
I understand FLARM does a good job of recognizing which gliders in the gaggle may pose a threat. Correct? -Tom Incorrect. Flarm is merely a distraction in gaggles. Its value is between thermals and approaching them. The makers obviously believe this aswell because it has a 5 minute mute facility specifically intended for use gaggles. |
#18
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Meeting to discuss FLARM in the USA
On Oct 26, 8:32 am, 5Z wrote:
I understand FLARM does a good job of recognizing which gliders in the gaggle may pose a threat. Correct? -Tom Incorrect. Flarm is merely a distraction in gaggles. Its value is between thermals and approaching them. The makers obviously believe this aswell because it has a 5 minute mute facility specifically intended for use in gaggles. |
#19
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Meeting to discuss FLARM in the USA
On Oct 26, 8:32 am, 5Z wrote:
I understand FLARM does a good job of recognizing which gliders in the gaggle may pose a threat. Correct? -Tom Incorrect. Flarm is merely a distraction in gaggles. Its value is between thermals and approaching them. The makers obviously believe this aswell because it has a 5 minute mute facility specifically intended for use in gaggles. |
#20
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Meeting to discuss FLARM in the USA
Mark Dickson wrote:
On Oct 26, 8:32 am, 5Z wrote: I understand FLARM does a good job of recognizing which gliders in the gaggle may pose a threat. Correct? -Tom Incorrect. Flarm is merely a distraction in gaggles. Its value is between thermals and approaching them. The makers obviously believe this aswell because it has a 5 minute mute facility specifically intended for use gaggles. Does it warn you when a new glider approaches to join the gaggle? That would be useful, even if the gliders already in the gaggle were muted. -- Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly * "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4 * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org |
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