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#81
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New Butterfly Vario
From the SSA Rules Committee:
US Competition Rules Committee Policy on Instruments Incorporating the Capability for Flight Without Reference To the Ground February 8, 2012 The US Rules Committee ("RC") reaffirms the longstanding rule that instruments which can be used to enable flight without reference to the ground are prohibited in competition.. The following policy relating to multi-function instruments that provide such functionality as a feature has been adopted based on consideration of the implications and side effects on contest procedures, scoring software and the imminent start of the US contest season; and discussions with manufacturers and pilots: 1. Rule 6.6 will remain as is. 6.6 6.6.1 Restricted Equipment Each sailplane is prohibited from carrying any instrument which: • Permits flight without reference to the ground. • Is capable of measuring air motion or temperature at a distance greater than one wingspan. 2. By waiver, the RC may allow the installation of such a device if the RC determines that the “artificial horizon” or “turn and bank” capability can be effectively and verifiably disabled for the period of the competition. 3. To obtain a waiver a competitor must: a. Ensure that the device in the configuration to be used is submitted to the RC for inspection well before the intended use (at least one month). This must also include a statement of compliance from the manufacturer. b. Request and obtain the waiver from the RC 4. The RC will use the following criteria in determining whether a specific device is eligible for waiver: a. It must be obvious to the casual observer that the forbidden capabilities are disabled or entirely absent when the device powers up and when the disablement will expire. b. It must not be possible to re-enable the forbidden capabilities during the period of competition. Examples of re-enablement scenarios would include: i. Reloading firmware ii. Changing device settings iii. Performing any kind of hardware reset (e.g. removing backup battery) 5. The procedure for using the device is expected to be: a. The competitor with a waiver disables the capability at the beginning of the contest b. The competitor demonstrates to an appropriate contest official (e.g. CD, scorer) that the disabling has been done. c. After 14 days the disablement expires (i.e. daily checking of IGC logs is not an acceptable process) end |
#82
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New Butterfly Vario
I received it as well.
I am concerned because a good number of us use PDA software that may include new features we cannot easily disable. So we all are suddenly not legal to fly in contests this year, or we're open to being protested because we use free software that we don't control? You're telling me that I have to buy a whole new Flight Computer, because *that's* the best way to deal with the issue of cloud-flying? Make competitors spend more money (and arguably have less "safety equipment") onboard? What about Smartphones, many of which have gyros and can be used as a (really bad) AH device? You mean we have to fly without cell-phones now, or buy a cheap crappy cell-phone for use in our glider? I've resisted weighing in on this so far, but I'm really galled by it. Cloud-flying has happened in the distant past, but I've been involved in competition for the last few years and its been POUNDED into me that you absolutely don't do it, either in competition or in casual flying. Its a stupid risk to take and the potential gains are minimal (i.e. your National Trophy isn't stuffed with a million dollars and doesn't come with a titanic sponsorship deal; it isn't worth dying for). Surely there's a better way to deal with the cloud-flying temptation than by cutting off a bunch of people at the knees and hobbling their ability to use tools and equipment that are perfectly legal and adequate in every other way... --Noel On Feb 10, 9:59*am, Sean Fidler wrote: So I received this email today. *Who else received this email? The Rules Committee (RC) has become aware of glider instruments that are available, or will soon be available, which will have built-in artificial horizon capabilities. The RC reaffirms the longstanding rule that instruments which can be used to enable flight without reference to the ground are prohibited in competition. The RC policy addressing this issue is posted on the SSA website:www.ssa.org sailplane racing rules & process important reading -- Instruments with Artificial Horizon or T&B Features *http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Rest...t%20Policy.pdf SSA Contest Committee Chair |
#83
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New Butterfly Vario
On Feb 10, 12:59*pm, Sean Fidler wrote:
So I received this email today. *Who else received this email? Read it again. The answer is on the very next line of that email. Answers to your other questions have already been answered and the rationale explained. -T8 |
#84
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New Butterfly Vario
To sum all of this up, as I am bored of the subject and know where old political power plays will go (as we sit today)...
The SSA has made the decision to outlaw T&B because they are more concerned with the chance that someone would be able to cheat with instrument than the chance that some might die without it. I am estimating that very few would try to cheat, and that very few (but many more than would try cheating) might benefit from the T&B in the next few years. The SSA rule says we hope that person comes out of the bottom of that cloud in pieces, and screw you...cheater! ;-) A policy that allows the T&B for everyone (especially now that it can and will be easily included in modern instruments) would be a win for safety and logic (IMO). It is time to change this rule. If people want to cheat, fine. Its a game, for fun...right? But why limit a major safety option for a sport in which most pilots are flying near clouds all the time? This unenforced (and unenforcable) rule is going to become more and more of a challenge to enforce. I do race contests...and have never needed a T&B yet. But I am sure the day will come... So I am installing one. Its that simple for me. |
#85
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New Butterfly Vario
On Feb 10, 5:54*am, T8 wrote:
On Feb 10, 7:26*am, Andy wrote: What do you mean by "bank indicator (still allowed)" ? That's his checkbook register. *After buying that fancy ASG-29, it's a pretty small number and hence easy to read in the cockpit. *The fear of damaging damaging such a valuable asset keeps him out of cloud :-). -T8 (slipping, one bubble off center) I have read the position released by the RC, http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Rest...t%20Policy.pdf , and am trying to understand how the process will work from a competitors, RC chairperson and a SSA sanctioned competition score keeper (I have scored contests the last couple of years and have plans to do so in 2012). The document reads: 2. By waiver, the RC may allow the installation of such a device if the RC determines that the “artificial horizon” or “turn and bank” capability can be effectively and verifiably disabled for the period of the competition. 3. To obtain a waiver a competitor must: a. Ensure that the device in the configuration to be used is submitted to the RC for inspection well before the intended use (at least one month). This must also include a statement of compliance from the manufacturer. b. Request and obtain the waiver from the RC 4. The RC will use the following criteria in determining whether a specific device is eligible for waiver: a. It must be obvious to the casual observer that the forbidden capabilities are disabled or entirely absent when the device powers up and when the disablement will expire. b. It must not be possible to re-enable the forbidden capabilities during the period of competition. Examples of re-enablement scenarios would include: i. Reloading firmware ii. Changing device settings iii. Performing any kind of hardware reset (e.g. removing backup battery) 5. The procedure for using the device is expected to be: a. The competitor with a waiver disables the capability at the beginning of the contest b. The competitor demonstrates to an appropriate contest official (e.g. CD, scorer) that the disabling has been done. c. After 14 days the disablement expires (i.e. daily checking of IGC logs is not an acceptable process) ?? Does 3a mean that the competitor must submit the instrument from their plane to the RC for inspection? ?? Not sure how 4a is to followed. Will each instrument that receives a waiver be documented and that documentation be available to all SSA members, CD's, and scorers? ?? How are CD's and scorers suppose to know how each instrument works and the setup being shown to them is compliant? ?? Are the contest registration forms and/or checklists being updated so that contest organizers and other personnel know to check for waivers, similar to insurance forms? I believe that advances in technology and instruments are great and will greatly enhance our flying enjoyment and safety. I am concerned and eager to understand how this procedure will affect the workload of contest organizers and rules committee members. Ron Gleason |
#86
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New Butterfly Vario
On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:05:24 -0600, Sean Fidler wrote:
I do fly contests, have many, many hours, am a commercial pilot, instrument rated. So I guess your incorrect. Hmmm. Any more lessons for me? Does anyone here track the longest thread ever on RAS? This one's on its third week. I think if we can keep Eric and Sean baiting each other for a few more days, we'll probably have a record. Whoever makes the Butterfly vario owes you guys a free sample...every day I get about 10 pop-ups on my computer with "New Butterfly Vario" as the subject. Personally, after all these pop-ups, I have a weird compulsion to buy one of these things. I don't even know what it does, and I'm happy with my current vario, but I just feel compelled to give Paul Remde my credit card number...very strange. Of course, if you do get a freebie, remember not to use it in a contest... -- Stefan Murry |
#87
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New Butterfly Vario
On Feb 10, 1:49*pm, Ron Gleason wrote:
On Feb 10, 5:54*am, T8 wrote: On Feb 10, 7:26*am, Andy wrote: What do you mean by "bank indicator (still allowed)" ? That's his checkbook register. *After buying that fancy ASG-29, it's a pretty small number and hence easy to read in the cockpit. *The fear of damaging damaging such a valuable asset keeps him out of cloud :-). -T8 (slipping, one bubble off center) I have read the position released by the RC,http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Rest...t%20Policy.pdf, and am trying to understand how the process will work from a competitors, RC chairperson and a SSA sanctioned competition score keeper (I have scored contests *the last couple of years and have plans to do so in 2012). The document reads: 2. By waiver, the RC may allow the installation of such a device if the RC determines that the “artificial horizon” or “turn and bank” capability can be effectively and verifiably disabled for the period of the competition. 3. To obtain a waiver a competitor must: a. Ensure that the device in the configuration to be used is submitted to the RC for inspection well before the intended use (at least one month). This must also include a statement of compliance from the manufacturer. b. Request and obtain the waiver from the RC 4. The RC will use the following criteria in determining whether a specific device is eligible for waiver: a. It must be obvious to the casual observer that the forbidden capabilities are disabled or entirely absent when the device powers up and when the disablement will expire. b. It must not be possible to re-enable the forbidden capabilities during the period of competition. Examples of re-enablement scenarios would include: i. Reloading firmware ii. Changing device settings iii. Performing any kind of hardware reset (e.g. removing backup battery) 5. The procedure for using the device is expected to be: a. The competitor with a waiver disables the capability at the beginning of the contest b. The competitor demonstrates to an appropriate contest official (e.g. CD, scorer) that the disabling has been done. c. After 14 days the disablement expires (i.e. daily checking of IGC logs is not an acceptable process) ?? *Does 3a mean that the competitor must submit the instrument from their plane to the RC for inspection? ?? *Not sure how 4a is to followed. *Will each instrument that receives a waiver be documented and that documentation be available to all *SSA members, CD's, and scorers? ?? *How are CD's and scorers suppose to know how each instrument works and the setup being shown to them is compliant? ?? *Are the contest registration forms and/or checklists being updated so that contest organizers and other personnel *know to check for waivers, similar to insurance forms? I believe that advances in technology and instruments are great and will greatly enhance our flying enjoyment and safety. *I am concerned and eager to understand how this procedure will affect the workload of contest organizers and rules committee members. Ron Gleason Hi Ron It is expected that manufacturer's will submit representative units so that the RC can determine that they comply. We fully expect a list of compliant devices to result. No we don't know where that list will live. A complying instrument will display the information required to veriify on start up. A contest official observes once and it's done. Much of how this is being handled is targeted toward not increasing the score's workload. This is why saving compliance information on the flight log was determined to not be acceptable. No forms will need to change. It is up to the pilot, if he has one of these, to demonstate compliance. The other option is a screw driver. We understand that new stuff is coming and this is why this policy was created to get ahead of it and give pilots and manufacturers some reasonable way to comply with a long standing rule. UH RC Chair |
#88
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New Butterfly Vario
On Feb 10, 12:13*pm, wrote:
On Feb 10, 1:49*pm, Ron Gleason wrote: On Feb 10, 5:54*am, T8 wrote: On Feb 10, 7:26*am, Andy wrote: What do you mean by "bank indicator (still allowed)" ? That's his checkbook register. *After buying that fancy ASG-29, it's a pretty small number and hence easy to read in the cockpit. *The fear of damaging damaging such a valuable asset keeps him out of cloud :-).. -T8 (slipping, one bubble off center) I have read the position released by the RC,http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Rest...t%20Policy.pdf, and am trying to understand how the process will work from a competitors, RC chairperson and a SSA sanctioned competition score keeper (I have scored contests *the last couple of years and have plans to do so in 2012). The document reads: 2. By waiver, the RC may allow the installation of such a device if the RC determines that the “artificial horizon” or “turn and bank” capability can be effectively and verifiably disabled for the period of the competition. 3. To obtain a waiver a competitor must: a. Ensure that the device in the configuration to be used is submitted to the RC for inspection well before the intended use (at least one month). This must also include a statement of compliance from the manufacturer. b. Request and obtain the waiver from the RC 4. The RC will use the following criteria in determining whether a specific device is eligible for waiver: a. It must be obvious to the casual observer that the forbidden capabilities are disabled or entirely absent when the device powers up and when the disablement will expire. b. It must not be possible to re-enable the forbidden capabilities during the period of competition. Examples of re-enablement scenarios would include: i. Reloading firmware ii. Changing device settings iii. Performing any kind of hardware reset (e.g. removing backup battery) 5. The procedure for using the device is expected to be: a. The competitor with a waiver disables the capability at the beginning of the contest b. The competitor demonstrates to an appropriate contest official (e.g. CD, scorer) that the disabling has been done. c. After 14 days the disablement expires (i.e. daily checking of IGC logs is not an acceptable process) ?? *Does 3a mean that the competitor must submit the instrument from their plane to the RC for inspection? ?? *Not sure how 4a is to followed. *Will each instrument that receives a waiver be documented and that documentation be available to all *SSA members, CD's, and scorers? ?? *How are CD's and scorers suppose to know how each instrument works and the setup being shown to them is compliant? ?? *Are the contest registration forms and/or checklists being updated so that contest organizers and other personnel *know to check for waivers, similar to insurance forms? I believe that advances in technology and instruments are great and will greatly enhance our flying enjoyment and safety. *I am concerned and eager to understand how this procedure will affect the workload of contest organizers and rules committee members. Ron Gleason Hi Ron It is expected that manufacturer's will submit representative units so that the RC can determine that they comply. We fully expect a list of compliant devices to result. No we don't know where that list will live. A complying instrument will display the information required to veriify on start up. A contest official observes once and it's done. Much of how this is being handled is targeted toward not increasing the score's workload. This is why saving compliance information on the flight log was determined to not be acceptable. No forms will need to change. It is up to the pilot, if he has one of these, to demonstate compliance. The other option is a screw driver. We understand that new stuff is coming and this is why this policy was created to get ahead of it and give pilots and manufacturers some reasonable way to comply with a long standing rule. UH RC Chair Thanks for the quick reply Hank. I see the process and want to believe it to be simple. I am envisioning the RC producing a document that shows the start up screens, etc, of the instrument for visual reference for use by the CD and/or scorer. This process is analogous to the ENL verification for a motor glider. yes it is up to the pilot but beating by the scorer and other techniques are required for many folks to have it down prior to the first day of competition. Nice job and solution for getting in front of the wave! Ron |
#89
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New Butterfly Vario
On Feb 10, 1:18*pm, "noel.wade" wrote:
I am concerned because a good number of us use PDA software that may include new features we cannot easily disable. *So we all are suddenly not legal to fly in contests this year, or we're open to being protested because we use free software that we don't control? [...] other good points snipped. Phones, watches and PDA software cannot be policed, full stop. LK8000 is designed to run off an SD card. So, practically speaking, they won't be. I don't think anyone would actually be stupid enough to try flying blind on these "instruments" intentionally and if you'd like to try having blundered into cloud unintentionally, well, good luck, you'll need it. Gyros in the panel are a different story. I can think immediately of three guys that would have, at one time, jumped at the chance to cloud fly in a contest if they thought they could get away with it and it would give an advantage. I think they have mellowed a bit with age (but in one case -- not so sure!). Sean -- in my view -- is spinning an army of straw men. Unlike Eric, I've flown contests for *only* 20 years and I'd echo -- "it's not just at the bottom of the safety list, it isn't even on the list." It's easy to stay the f--- out of clouds if you even give a nod to the FARs. Would I like a turn gyro or AH in my panel -- sure! -- but I absolutely do not need it for contest flying (we get a lot of wet wave in the Fall in NH, that's another issue altogether). If the rules change w.r.t. instruments, I won't complain. But I will rat you out if I see you flying into or out of a cloud. That's a promise. -Evan Ludeman / T8 |
#90
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New Butterfly Vario
On Feb 10, 11:13*am, wrote:
On Feb 10, 1:49*pm, Ron Gleason wrote: On Feb 10, 5:54*am, T8 wrote: On Feb 10, 7:26*am, Andy wrote: What do you mean by "bank indicator (still allowed)" ? That's his checkbook register. *After buying that fancy ASG-29, it's a pretty small number and hence easy to read in the cockpit. *The fear of damaging damaging such a valuable asset keeps him out of cloud :-).. -T8 (slipping, one bubble off center) I have read the position released by the RC,http://www.ssa.org/files/member/Rest...t%20Policy.pdf, and am trying to understand how the process will work from a competitors, RC chairperson and a SSA sanctioned competition score keeper (I have scored contests *the last couple of years and have plans to do so in 2012). The document reads: 2. By waiver, the RC may allow the installation of such a device if the RC determines that the “artificial horizon” or “turn and bank” capability can be effectively and verifiably disabled for the period of the competition. 3. To obtain a waiver a competitor must: a. Ensure that the device in the configuration to be used is submitted to the RC for inspection well before the intended use (at least one month). This must also include a statement of compliance from the manufacturer. b. Request and obtain the waiver from the RC 4. The RC will use the following criteria in determining whether a specific device is eligible for waiver: a. It must be obvious to the casual observer that the forbidden capabilities are disabled or entirely absent when the device powers up and when the disablement will expire. b. It must not be possible to re-enable the forbidden capabilities during the period of competition. Examples of re-enablement scenarios would include: i. Reloading firmware ii. Changing device settings iii. Performing any kind of hardware reset (e.g. removing backup battery) 5. The procedure for using the device is expected to be: a. The competitor with a waiver disables the capability at the beginning of the contest b. The competitor demonstrates to an appropriate contest official (e.g. CD, scorer) that the disabling has been done. c. After 14 days the disablement expires (i.e. daily checking of IGC logs is not an acceptable process) ?? *Does 3a mean that the competitor must submit the instrument from their plane to the RC for inspection? ?? *Not sure how 4a is to followed. *Will each instrument that receives a waiver be documented and that documentation be available to all *SSA members, CD's, and scorers? ?? *How are CD's and scorers suppose to know how each instrument works and the setup being shown to them is compliant? ?? *Are the contest registration forms and/or checklists being updated so that contest organizers and other personnel *know to check for waivers, similar to insurance forms? I believe that advances in technology and instruments are great and will greatly enhance our flying enjoyment and safety. *I am concerned and eager to understand how this procedure will affect the workload of contest organizers and rules committee members. Ron Gleason Hi Ron It is expected that manufacturer's will submit representative units so that the RC can determine that they comply. We fully expect a list of compliant devices to result. No we don't know where that list will live. A complying instrument will display the information required to veriify on start up. A contest official observes once and it's done. Much of how this is being handled is targeted toward not increasing the score's workload. This is why saving compliance information on the flight log was determined to not be acceptable. No forms will need to change. It is up to the pilot, if he has one of these, to demonstate compliance. The other option is a screw driver. We understand that new stuff is coming and this is why this policy was created to get ahead of it and give pilots and manufacturers some reasonable way to comply with a long standing rule. UH RC Chair From what I read and understand in the rules if I obtain a waiver, and have my Tru-Trak inspected, and the on-off switch is "off" and perhaps safetied with witness wire then perhaps I'm ok to fly a contest. Or maybe I pull 2 screws and place a cat food lid in front of the display. I'm more than happy to demonstrate compliance by wiring my switch with a disabling mechanism, but don't make me unscrew my panel, pull wires and remove an instrument. It's sad that by default I would be considered a potential cheater because I consider an AH a basic safety need. The other issue that Noel brings up is the LK8000 and that AH page. I would like to think that on top of everything else, I would not need to buy and learn another piece of soaring software just because there is a AH page on my flight computer. I've made a few comparisons with the Tru-Trak and the LK8000 AH, I would not rely on the LK8000, but if I had nothing else and it meant giving that a try or ripping my wings off I would at least try it. Maybe Paolo could add a button to "dis- able" the page? Here's a great way to stifle pilots who might be tempted to fly competition................remove your turn and bank, or don't fly in our competition. Brad |
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